Take the plunge now or wait until secondary? Tearing my hair out and at loggerheads with DP

[Munneyworries]

Me and DP started saving for DD’s school fees when she was born. She’s due to go to school next September and we should have 100k saved by then. The school we are looking at is 18k a year for prep (including VAT), rising to 24k (including vat) at secondary level (obviously may be more by the time she starts secondary).

DP is adamant that she should start next year and our plan that we use 10k drawn down from savings per year and the rest from income. His argument is that the surplus needed from income equates to the same as the nursery fees per month that we have been paying and things have been fine.

I get where he is coming from but I just don’t feel we have enough buffer yet. I don’t want to put her in and then take her out etc. The local primary school is not good in terms of reputation for teaching etc but it is a nice place and friendly and I don’t think it will cause her harm to go there.

We have been arguing about this constantly since viewing the prep school this last week and DP wanting to basically sign up to it immediately. I feel so stressed and don’t want to make a mistake for dd who realistically won’t know the difference between the two schools regardless of which one she starts at.

People are so scared their children aren't clever or hard working enough to compete on equal terms with the vast majority of their peers that they'll literally spend the value of a house on pushing them to the front of the pack. OP - there will be state schools in your area which will be sending kids off to the best universities in the country. Trust your child to succeed on equal terms with her peers. And put the money in an account so she can buy a house when she graduates.

I did primary till 10, grammar school for a year and then public school as a child as parents moved overseas. To be honest the quality of education was similar throughout!

@izimbra we pay private school fees for a nicer environment and facilities (beautiful park like grounds and a swimming pool, Astro hockey pitches, drama theatre and pianist on staff, team of school nurses, a counsellor and chaplain). Our dd uses all these facilities so for us it’s worth it. We also like being able to access the teachers easily and getting quick responses; issues dealt with quickly (eg medical problems requiring work being sent home etc). Great relationship between home and school and happy child with an active sporting, drama and musical life.

we are not scared of competing - absolutely aware that the local high school sends kids to exactly the same unis dd is interested in.

we’re just paying for a nicer life for dd (and us)

I don't think children from private primarys should be allowed to sit the 11+

I think private is a waste of money for primary, and if you can't really afford it it will make life miserable. We did state primary and then selective London day schools, which is quite a common pathway in our bit of London. Very successful for our DC in terms of exam results and university destinations. However I do think it depends a bit on where you live, as 11+ is so febrile in London compared to elsewhere.

I agree with absolutely everything here. I think it’s hard to put into words everything you do get in a private school, but it’s an entirely different experience.

Right down to not needing to stress about booking before and after school clubs etc. School opens at 0745 and closes at 1800, you don’t need to book and you can drop them in early/pick them up late any day(s) you wish with no notice.

If they are unwell they’ll see a qualified nurse immediately. It’s the little things that really do make life easier.

In answer to the original question, we started our two with no buffer and it was not a problem. But we have high salaries in in-demand industries. A lot would depend on our job security, and whether you can actually pay entirely from income (we can and still have multiple holidays a year etc). If you actually don’t have enough money to spare and THAT is what the buffer is for, then I don’t think your buffer is anywhere near enough. Fees are increasing hugely at a quite disturbing rate.

Why?
Primaries, not primarys, by the way.

Because it defeats the purpose of the 11+ and grammar system
Really couldn't give a shit

Agree with the above and private school is so expensive. Espescially for primary school. Rather than just pay all that money the best way to help your child succeed is encourage study and actively help them yourself, at a younger age at least. Up until the 11+ i did basic workbooks at home and later some actual tuition to make sure i got into grammar school. That was a smart investment long term and now my parents have money saved that I can use for University etc

Haha I went to a normal primary and then did the 11+ and I think paying private school fees for primary school is kind of crazy but I don't think they should be banned from applying to Grammar schools later on. Can see where you are coming from though. I also didn't consider that grammar schools were for people that couldn't pay back in the day. Things have changed now

No, it doesn't. 11+ is open to all. It's not fair to punish a child for a decision his/her parents made. It's vindictive.

(You really should care, it's important.)

Imagine what that money could do for her as an adult. A deposit on a house etc
Surely spending it now would be an epic waste.

Changing schools can be good for resilience and confidence building. You may also gain a second set of friends.

I'd probably wait until Year 3 or 4 and send her then. Top up with extra reading and maths at home before then.

Check the school has a 7+ entry point.

I'd use the extra money saved to go on nice holidays or hire a French speaking nanny!

In the current climate I think it is madness to assume that an private school will still be there in 15 years time. So many private schools have closed or amalgamated in the last decade that you DP could be very disappointed if things change and your child has to move school anyway. I would put her into state for now and see how things are in 3 years time. Putting all eggs in one very insecure basket is not a good idea.

How quickly have you saved the £100k? You say you started saving when she was born so… Let’s assume your DD is currently 4 so roughly £25k a year.

Fees now are £18k. Let’s add £3k for extras. So you’ll have £4k a year to add to your savings pot. Then you say you’re currently paying for nursery. So let’s assume that’s £8k a year based on your OP. So you’ll be able to add £12k to your savings per year instead of £25k for primary. So 7 years of that and your pot will be £184k. (Obviously fee increases etc but you’ll be getting interest on your savings too etc etc)

I mean if you don’t want to send her to private then don’t send her, but it looks to me like you can afford it easily…?

I’m not paying for grades btw, my kids are very bright and did state til 8. It’s the other stuff you can’t explain fully. But for us it’s worth it, grades wise they’d have got them at our local comp. I could and I wouldn’t send them to our local grammar. Bizarrely more elitist and run by tiger parents, speaking to just one gives me a headache.

I really agree with this, and the previous poster who suggested keeping the savings for the cost of university. I'm always surprised how many people just assume that any private school is going to be better than any state school. I went to what was a fairly prestigious private primary school, and was then moved to a state secondary school, mainly because I was so unhappy. There was only one other girl in my year at secondary school who had moved from a private school and we were no more or less advanced than the oiks who had moved from the state sector. The main difference was that the other girls were much more rounded socially, and had normal families who weren't insufferable snobs like my friends' parents at primary school. My daughter went to a truly superb state junior school, and couldn't have got a better education, no matter how much we had laid. She won the maximum scholarships to the three public schools we applied to, but we chose a grammar school for her because we felt that the quality of education, pastoral support, and facilities on offer were much better than anything we saw at the public schools we visited. I actually walked out of the headteacher's speech at one very well known south London girls' school because I couldn't believe the attitude of the head towards children with special needs and disabilities, and that some of the things she said weren't being challenged by other parents. I really didn't want my daughter being educated in that type of environment.

If you go back even further, ie before 2nd World War, the Grammar schools in my city were fee paying for most with Scholarship places for bright kids whose parents couldn't afford the fees. It was only when free Secondary school for all was introduced by the Labour govt after the war that the Grammar schools became fully part of the state system and free of fees so 'rich but dim' kids could no longer buy themselves a place. Everyone had to pass the 11+ and the results that followed showed the benefit of eradicating the lower ability group. In my city the one private school cannot compete with the GCSE and A Level results of the Grammars, but the facilities especially for Art and Music and Sport are much better than any state school. If I had the money and children who would be also rans at Grammar I would send them to such a school in a heartbeat.

@Thudercatsrule there's more than one kind of problem and Mumsnet is a massive site. If this post is not in your wheelhouse, feel free not to click on it. it's not up to you to decide who's problems are worthy of our attention. Or what constitutes "a problem"

I agree with you OP. That being said the private primary schools are much better than state. I would rather spend money on private primary and state secondary.
The state secondaries are reasonable in my area.

I think it's such a long time until secondary that you can't know the school will suit her for that long.

But - what I'd do is to really research the state school. Education is in an increasingly dire state these days and, as hard as the very dedicated staff work, a lot of schools are extremely cash strapped and under resourced for the cohorts of increasingly challenging children they have. This does have an impact on the quality of education for a lot of children. You say it won't do any harm - it really, really can.

Things are going to get worse before they get better. This is why my DD is at an independent school for secondary - we had excellent primary state options but secondaries not so great. Once you've really done your due diligence comparing the resources of the schools you might find you would prefer the private school environment for your DD regardless of the financials.

Private pre prep is honestly like burning money. Absolutely no point to it at all.

I actually feel sorry for your child. What if they are not academic? The pressure parents put on their children is nuts. There is more to life than a string of A*s followed by the 9 to 5 grind. Invest in a house for them. Then they will have so much more freedom to enjoy life.

@Growlybear83 I'm interested in what you said about the prestigious school's attitude towards special needs.
DS was temporarily in a wheelchair due to a bad sports injury when we were looking at secondary schools. We were treated as a nuisance by the nearby private school and the local state secondary could not have been more kind or helpful. We were relieved that he got a place at the state school

It depends on what the state funded primary option is like IMO, because some are good and are terrible. And it also depends on what the children are like too. If they are going from early years right through the private school that can be advantageous. I did state primary then private secondary, and they are different worlds. I’d probably have had more of an advantage had I gone private all the way through.