To tell Children's Services it is a malicious referal from school

[UndertheCedartree]

So DD's school have today told me they are referring us to Children's Services. Ever since I made a complaint they have been trying to off roll her. They are not putting in proper support for DD leaving her struggling and then not wanting to go in the next day. Apparently this is all my fault. I feel this is just another tactic for me to be so fed up with the school I pull her out.

I'll just add that sometimes a reaction from professionals is 'malicious' and sometimes it's just ignorant.

I'm ashamed to say before I had my own disabled children, when I was a teacher, I really did not understand the difficulties children with SEND and their families faced, particularly on the attendance issue (even though I struggled with attendance myself as a young person!). Now, obviously I know better but I did used to think it was at least partially parents' fault.

Thanks for your honest perspective. Do you think that the additional pressure on teachers for completing paperwork and targets also has a bearing? Especially if you have a task-master Head breathing down your neck for good results, and you've got a higher than average allocation of SEN pupils. I can imagine that it would sometimes be difficult to remain sympathetic and accommodating towards parents if you're under that sort of pressure.

I didn't last very long in teaching but yes, the pressure to show rapid and sustained progress was a factor. It's very difficult to show this in children who don't necessarily progress in a neat way or who are not in the classroom very often.

Most teachers swore blind they had read every EHCP (which were a LOT less common when I taught), but it was obvious this was just not the case in the mainstream secondary schools I worked in. Some didn't know where to find the EHCP documents...

We got a single dedicated day on SEND in my teacher training.

Most importantly though, and this was several years ago so might have changed, there was a real culture of dismissing the needs of children with SEND and their families. The things I heard in staffrooms, well I can't unheard them now...

Yes, but it was when DD was tiny so lots has changed. But yes, at least they know us, I suppose.

Thank you, I'll have a look.

If that is the case and the reality, why is that false pretense then that UK society is all about democracy, human rights, inclusivity, etc, when seems is completely the opposite?!!!

We are definitely not a fair and equal society. This goes way beyond the money. We only have to look at behaviour and attendance policies to realise that we are fundamentally setting a significant number of children (albeit in minority) to fail. Sometimes schools, councils etc do awful discriminatory things even when it wouldn't cost them anything extra to do the right thing.

I'm hoping it's changed a bit in the 6 years since I was working in schools, but from my perspective as a parent carer, I doubt it.

All so upsetting and disappointing.

Yes, can you imagine?!

I'm sorry your DC suffered too. But thank you for the reassurance.

And I know what you mean, the Head doesn't even have the most basic idea of what masking is or things like change being hard. The learning mentor often uses colouring as a therapeutic activity for DD - the headteacher said it was just 'babysitting' if DD is doing colouring with her. The ignorance is just astounding!

This is what everyone says. You will have the hardest fight of your life and have to be 'that parent' no matter how much you don't want to be. It is so so unfair!

Thank you for being so honest. Staff really need more training in these areas. Having said that many of her teachers do know a lot. But I really was surprised with how little the head, deputy or attendance officer know.

So clueless, @UndertheCedartree

It is quite astonishing that somebody so ignorant could be in a senior position. There are clearly enormous failings in the promotion processes. The Head of our school also interrogated my child trying to get her to try to say something negative about home. She kept telling them the problem was school and she loves home but this wasn't an acceptable answer. Apparently they don't have the resources to support her properly but they have plenty to interrogate a 5 year old.

How can people working in education really know nothing about SEN when it is such a significant part of their profession? The PGCE isn't fit for purpose, or ongoing CPD. Even the woman who calls herself a SENCO at my children's school is so clueless that she doesn't understand masking. We get "she's fine when she's here so it must be a problem at home". She even wrote in the response to the LA regarding the EHCP application I submitted, that it is "the parent's opinion that she is autistic".

Never mind the consultant neurodevelopmental paediatrician, SALT and OT who diagnosed her before she even started school. Just my "opinion" apparently?! And she thought the fact that her diagnosis report says she mimics and uses scripts meant that I was teaching her to "fake" autism. She was diagnosed aged 4 and had no idea what autism is?!? These people are beyond moronic and there's no reasoning with them. Then you came here and got more moronic comments from many posters as well. Just shows how many ignorant people there are around, still.

It is so tiresome having to deal with it all. I don't expect school staff to be experts on autism but it would be a start if they would at least have the deceny to listen to those who are. Mind-boggling arrogance that they think they know better than doctors and specialists.

I hope you get the outcome you need for your daughter and these people all have to eat some humble pie. But you're not alone. It seems all of the incompetent employees within this so-called profession operate in a remarkably similar, deceitful, manipulative and abusive manner.

What is crazy is that at a meeting about an autistic and anxious DC the SENCo wasn't able to speak and the mental health lead wasn't even invited. Instead the person making all the decisions about my DC is a headteacher who thinks coloring is 'babysitting.' She really needs to stay within her scope of expertise.

On the flip side, you wouldn't believe the amount of parents who claim their child needs a diagnosis, or has one, and there is no other proof except their word. Some parents (and students) read stuff online, self diagnose and then expect schools to support something that isn't there. One again, the fakers are ruining it for the genuine cases.

However you clearly had assessments from other agencies so this doesn't apply. But it is perhaps why schools can be a little skeptical at times. I'm sorry that they treated you like this.

Not really the fault of parents given the length of waiting lists. I have 3 kids with autism and adhd. 1 has an nhs diagnosis of both, 1 had an nhs diagnosis of autism and their referral and strong suspicion of adhd and the third has neither but a private psych report saying he almost definitely had both and he recommends diagnosis but we can’t afford it privately so said son is now on the 10 year wait list. All 3 have autism and adhd.

Interestingly I have 2 at uni and they are so much more inclusive. You don’t need an official diagnosis to access support ie the undiagnosed as yet child will be accessing the same as the child with a diagnosis- as he should be.

We know all about long waiting lists believe us. We're tying to get children diagnosed too.

However can you see that if a parent says X has Y. We never see that behaviour in school at all and have no other source then what can we do?

Not that this is what's happening to the OP. Just be aware that there are parents like this iut there and it's why schools can be somewhat jaded at times.

We support children with or without diagnosis. Children that are "suspected adhd awaiting diagnosis" get taught and planned for as if they had a diagnosis. And then it's individual based. What P needs for adhd is different to what F needs in the same room with ADHD.

If you work in a school you should be aware how autism and ND presents in girls and how much both can be masked in school.

I was one such parent dealing with education staff who clearly were pretty ignorant as to how ND presents in girls. Endless battles to be heard- fast track forward. My dd now has an EHCP and 3 NHS ND diagnosis and years of heavy input from services.

I was right, staff were wrong and illustrated a huge amount of ignorance as to how ND presents in girls.

Would like to add the ignorance shown by school was highlighted by several psyches as being part of the reason for her subsequent break down and years of being a big drain on the NHS .

Maybe give parents a bit of credit as regards knowing their child.

Tell me you don't understand autism in girls without telling me you don't understand autism in girls!

OP, the pattern in autistic girls with EBSA (emotional barriers to school attendance) is absolutely classic. They do quite well at primary, transition well, and back end of year 7/ early year 8 their coping skills are exhausted, they go into burnout/collapse and EBSA follows.

I would not tell social care that the referral is "malicious", but I would tell them you believe it is in error and a misunderstanding of the severe stress your DD is under in education. They are attributing her distress to either poor/weak/abusive/ permissive parenting whereas you are attributing it to her not having the coping skills to manage the expectations on her in school, because of her autism.

Does your LA not have an EBSA/EBSNA policy? Many do now, and I would be looking it up. EBSA is sadly very very common in modern secondary education, especially post covid, and especially in autistic students (and absolutely classically in year 8 autistic girls!)

Our SENCO told me last week that our local EP describes EBSA in ASD girls as an epidemic right now.

...and apologies, I see the discussion has moved on. For some reason only pp 1-3 were loading! My suggestion isn't wrong but it is probably not as helpful as other info in the 20 pages I haven't time to read as I need to get to work!

I can imagine there are a small number of parents who are giving their kids unwarranted diagnoses. But that doesn’t excuse ‘jaded’ behaviour regarding kids who have documented needs. How is that fair on children?

We know autism presents differently in girls. Most likely minor issues at primary, especially if a small calm school. Transition can be rocky, or they fly under the radar. By y8 you can literally see the energy they're putting into masking, excluding them from participating fully in classroom. It's heartbreaking. Then puberty kicks in and everything gets more difficult.

@Warmwoolytights
Yep.
Hence why most LAs are rapidly producing policies and advice to schools.

It isn't fair.

But nor is the whole system fair. Parents, teachers and children with SEND are all set up to fail.

I'm trying to give you some perspective to the sphere the school staff are working in too. We hate it. We know that X is in the wrong school, we can't meet her needs but the LA have no place for her to go. But then X is destroying the education of the other 20 kids in the room. That's not fair either. So forgive at times we may be slightly frustrated for the 20 kids not learning maths this year.

And here is a good example of the widespread ignorance- “ most likely minor issues at primary” on the surface because they mask!!!

My dd was struggling massively at primary and we were ignored.