'i would die for my kids' ..but would people really?!

[ShouldIGoHigher]

Had a very interesting discussion today with my mum and wondered other peoples thoughts.

We were talking about how a lot of people say 'i would die for kids' as a testament of how much they love their children but don't actually mean it or really think about what that actually means and actually.. wouldn't.

So in my mind if someone says they would die for them I take that to mean there's nothing on this earth they wouldn't do for them and to keep them safe.
But then so many people say that but yet won't do basic things for their DC if it's at an inconvenience to themselves let alone put themselves in harms way.

Several examples of this from minor to more extreme.

A work colleagues mum and dad wouldn't watch their grandchildren so my colleague could attend a mammogram for possible cancer. They didn't want to use up annual leave for it. Colleague had to postpone to appointment and unfortunately did have cancer. Of course her parents have said 'i wish I could trade places with you!' ..but they wouldn't even use a leave day for a scan?!

A more extreme example, one of my closest childhood friends has recently left an extremely violent man. She took years of absolute hell from him including violent sex attacks. He battered her in the end and caused lifelong injuries.
Before the final attack she had left him. Her parents new all the ins and outs and saw the bruises. When she left they gave all the lip service of he's a bastard and evil etc. gave her praise for leaving. But the police wouldn't do anything to keep her safe. She kept saying she was worried he was going to come and kill her and he said he would. They saw him say it and knew he was capable. Yet.. they did nothing. Didn't want to get involved and instead gave moral support. I understand this for a friend but your own child?!
In the end he did find her and he absolutely battered her.

My mum knows this friend and her family well and the was aghast at the lip service of how they could say in one breath 'id die for my kids' and in the next sit back and watch their daughter's life be under threat.
She said if it were me or my siblings in that situation with the police unable to help then she would've moved into my house during this period of threat or is with her, without question. Then been prepared to spend the remainder of her days behind bars or dead herself than let him lay a hand on her children.
I honestly believe her and know she would. But then when I think of my kids, I know id do the same. I could definitely make peace with going to prison for the rest of my days for my children's life. How can you say your prepared to literally die for your kids but not go to prison to protect them?

There's also people who say they'd die for their kids but yet they'd not help them financially when they themselves are rich and kids are on the breadline etc.

Do these people genuinely believe it when they say it?
What do they actually mean?

Am I being unreasonable when I say loads of people don't truly mean it when they say it?

YABU - parents do mean it
YANBU - it's lip service because it sounds good to a lot of people.

I think it sparked an interest in some researcher into human behaviour after a high number of children were killed in some natural disaster. They looked at things like fires, wars, times were this 'me or my kid' survival question really does come up. Even in times of famine, parents could give every scrap of food to their kid, when push really does come to shove, across every culture, we save ourselves first, despite our high words

One most obvious reason for that, apart from self-survival being a very strong instinct, is that dependent children are exactly that- dependent on you, how would starving yourself to death and feeding them benefit them? Many women do feed their kids first and then keep themselves going on something, there's been quite a bit of research on this. Women also seek medical assistance for their husband, for their kids, before they seek it for themselves.

Not everyone is like that though- we recognise people who feed themselves first and don't feed their children enough as abusive or neglectful, we have words for this. Eating so you can survive and care for your kids, or lowering yourself out of a burning house so you can parent your kids if they survive is not selfish per se, it might be, it might not.

Lots of mums seem to sacrifice a whole heap of their lives for their sick or SN kids or to care for others, and their willingness to do that is exploited by the state and they are paid very little for doing so.

Do you think the abuser will just take a beating quietly and then walk away with his tail between his legs?
The trouble with beating up an abuser and going to jail is that you leave vulnerable daughter/ wife/ grandchildren etc behind at the mercy of abuser and his friends.
That also presumed that said parents are fit enough to wipe the floor with an abuser and won't end making the situation much much worse.

Same, in a heartbeat pardon the pun.

The only people who know the answer are the people concerned and they will only know when they are faced with the situation.
People think they know how they would react but until the situation arises no one really knows

Human beings are complex and they're flawed. My parents have problems. They've done a lot of stupid, selfish things over the years and we were neglected as children. But, thinking about it, if they had to go into a burning building to get us out or donate a vital organ or take a bullet or something, I do genuinely believe they would do it in a heartbeat.

Circumstances led to me and my daughter both waiting for diagnoses in the same week, either of which could have been very grave indeed.

In the middle of a long night, and in utter seriousness, I made a deal with the Universe or God or fate or the Devil or whatever it is we speak to in the dark. "If you're going to take one of us, make it me - and I won't fight it."

At that time, in that place, in that situation, I meant it completely.

Respectfully, that declaration has all the value of ‘On the whole, I think I prefer vanilla’ or ‘in my next life, I’d like to come back as an eagle’ until you’re actually put in the position of staring your actual violent death in the face.

Yes. I would die for them. If it was a choice between my dying or them, then I would volunteer without hesitation. The instinct to protect them is primeval and cannot be overridden.

It's surprising because until I had DC I always thought of myself as rather selfish. But when it comes to them I am annoyingly selfless.

Thoughts of leaving a motherless and traumatised child behind would worry me in that situation. I would wonder if it was kinder to let them be killed than live, motherless, with the trauma and survivor guilt.

What if dying for one child and would mean leaving the others motherless? What if there was no guarantee that your death would save your child?

In reality things like this are nowhere near as nuanced as people like to make out.

@Ifoughthefight

Kids yes. No one else though. Spouse/parents etc. Wouldn’t.

My Kids yes, I would. Anyone else no I wouldn't,

Absolutely not - I was in a situation where my Mother could have attempted to save me getting viciously attacked in my own home - or at least ring the police (DV ex partner)

But she got up and said 'im not putting up with this' like she was the victim, and called herself a taxi and left

I had a broken nose and eye socket, but had to listen to how inconvenienced she was by it

This thread reminds of the fact that there was a local neighbour who was a bit of a foul-mouthed bully.

We lived rurally, so had to hop out to do the gates on country lanes every so often.

Whenever the neighbour was around at the gate, my mum was fussy and stay put, meaning my sister or I had to get out.

Perhaps she justified it by the fact that the neighbour was never aggressive towards us, but I can't imagine expecting my child to face up to someone I wasn't prepared to face up to myself.

My dad, on the other hand, stepped in very forcefully when a bunch of teenagers were pratting around in a dangerous way. He didn't think twice about the fact that they could have rounded on him.

If I said this, my daughter would laugh in my face and remind me of the time a pony came running toawrds us and I instinctively shoved her in front of me. In my defence, I have a phobia of horses and was absolutely terrified. She loves them and wasn't bothered.

I do wonder if the logical or emotional side would come through in a situation like that though. Like whether if it was a sudden life or death situation you would just think ' I have to save my child' and put yourself in danger. It's probably ultimately more selfish than allowing one child to die so your other children have a mother. Because to live without one of my children would be he'll on earth for me, but my remaining child st least would have a mother. If I sacrificed myself for my child, neither would have a mother and one would presumably be traumatised by survivors guilt.

And if he’d murdered him?
he’d get longer as well as have to live with the guilt of taking a life.

if the family need his income they are fucked

once you stoop that low you can no longer expect police support it changes everything.

if she had taken the abusers side now he’s the victim. meaning the dads lost everything and he’s still won.

the dad getting killed in the fight, yes the abuser is locked up, imagine that guilt on your shoulders.

my dad didn’t do that for me either, he’s 6ft 2, and soft as butter. It would have made it worse. Much much worse. Him being locked up, my mum blaming me for it. It would be awful.

People only mean it in a hostage situation if it was really obvious life vs death.

However minor inconvenience to their daily lives like going for a scan and helping with childcare depends on the person. Some people are more helpful than others. I doubt my parents mean it as they aren’t very helpful physically or emotionally.

Of course I would in a heartbeat no questions asked if it was me or DD I would save her every time . That's what being a parent is or should be but then we all know there are plenty of people out there who shouldn't be parents

I'd die for either of my kids in a heartbeat, if it was me or them. No hesitation.

It's a funny one. I know my father would kill for me, but then he's not speaking to me because I told him I didn't want to hear his racist views.

That's different though, as someone upthread said. As a sweeping generalisation mother will die for, father will kill for 🤷🏼‍♀️

See, this is madness. Confessing to a criminal offence you did not commit is insane. And IMO, it's shit parenting. If your kid is our committing crime, surely the proper parenting is to ensure they take responsibility for their own actions?

I absolutely cannot get my head around this. In your Mother's shoes I would have physically defended my DD without hesitation. I'm not physically intimidating at all but seeing my daughter hurt would enrage me and I know the Tiger Mum instinct would blind me to anything else.

I reacted similarly when DD was younger and a teenage boy deliberately slammed into her on his scooter. I swear I saw red and I descended on him like the Wrath of God. It never occured to me that he topped me by about 6 inches and outweighed me by about 80lbs. I've never felt anything like it before or since, just instantly flooded with huge amounts of adrenaline.

The urge to protect is primitive and primeval. Just because someone is a parent it doesn't always follow that they care deeply about their child or have any kind of bond with them.