'i would die for my kids' ..but would people really?!

[ShouldIGoHigher]

Had a very interesting discussion today with my mum and wondered other peoples thoughts.

We were talking about how a lot of people say 'i would die for kids' as a testament of how much they love their children but don't actually mean it or really think about what that actually means and actually.. wouldn't.

So in my mind if someone says they would die for them I take that to mean there's nothing on this earth they wouldn't do for them and to keep them safe.
But then so many people say that but yet won't do basic things for their DC if it's at an inconvenience to themselves let alone put themselves in harms way.

Several examples of this from minor to more extreme.

A work colleagues mum and dad wouldn't watch their grandchildren so my colleague could attend a mammogram for possible cancer. They didn't want to use up annual leave for it. Colleague had to postpone to appointment and unfortunately did have cancer. Of course her parents have said 'i wish I could trade places with you!' ..but they wouldn't even use a leave day for a scan?!

A more extreme example, one of my closest childhood friends has recently left an extremely violent man. She took years of absolute hell from him including violent sex attacks. He battered her in the end and caused lifelong injuries.
Before the final attack she had left him. Her parents new all the ins and outs and saw the bruises. When she left they gave all the lip service of he's a bastard and evil etc. gave her praise for leaving. But the police wouldn't do anything to keep her safe. She kept saying she was worried he was going to come and kill her and he said he would. They saw him say it and knew he was capable. Yet.. they did nothing. Didn't want to get involved and instead gave moral support. I understand this for a friend but your own child?!
In the end he did find her and he absolutely battered her.

My mum knows this friend and her family well and the was aghast at the lip service of how they could say in one breath 'id die for my kids' and in the next sit back and watch their daughter's life be under threat.
She said if it were me or my siblings in that situation with the police unable to help then she would've moved into my house during this period of threat or is with her, without question. Then been prepared to spend the remainder of her days behind bars or dead herself than let him lay a hand on her children.
I honestly believe her and know she would. But then when I think of my kids, I know id do the same. I could definitely make peace with going to prison for the rest of my days for my children's life. How can you say your prepared to literally die for your kids but not go to prison to protect them?

There's also people who say they'd die for their kids but yet they'd not help them financially when they themselves are rich and kids are on the breadline etc.

Do these people genuinely believe it when they say it?
What do they actually mean?

Am I being unreasonable when I say loads of people don't truly mean it when they say it?

YABU - parents do mean it
YANBU - it's lip service because it sounds good to a lot of people.

Another way to think about it is what would you sacrifice for your child? This is just my opinion, but the women I know are prepared to sacrifice a lot more (career, time, sanity) for their children than the men I know. The men who are good parents are good, but they aren't prepared to put their happiness second often, which many women are prepared to do if their child needs care, support, and time. Lots of women I know have less happy lives due to putting their children first. Not all, of course, and I'm not sure it's always the best thing to do, but they are prepared to do it. I don't know many men who have done that.

That's a really good way to put it. I agree.

I didn't say that, it's clearly an impossible situation either way. But if a parent asks to be the one killed they've just left their kids alone at the mercy of a madman who has kidnapped them all (in the hostage scenario a PP mentioned). Poor kids will probably end up with survivors guilt at the least. That's why it's always just a nonsense thing parents say to make out what a good loving parent they are. I'd die for my parents (in theory, I can't say how I'd react if it really happened) it's not a selfless thing just I'm quite happy to go whenever and I wouldn't want the grief and guilt of losing them.

There is no way I’d die for my parents because it would leave my son motherless and them with terrible guilt.

Here an example of a mom who actually does for her son: www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/autism-advocate-feda-almaliti-son-die-fremont-house-fire/

She an autism advocate I used to follow. She went into the fire and died while trying to convince her son to get out.

I have 2 sons with severe autism and how they would behave in a dangerous situation or an emergency is one of my worst nightmares.

I've sacrificed all three for my kids and would do it again. The impacts on my life and it's quality are profound and hurt, but I don't regret the priority. With all sacrifices there are usually gains too, so you really have to look at the silver linings.

No, my DH hasn't made any of the same sacrifices. It made sense as he earns a lot more than me and I'm better equipped to have taken on the role in the family I did.

I've been in traumatic situations, so know how I generally react in those. I'll never be in every possible situation though, thank goodness! The one thing I can say with confidence due to experience is that I would always make the decision that is best for my child, even at great cost to myself.

I always think about the video of that lady who got ran over with her baby in the pushchair and you can see in those seconds before the car hit her she did what she could to lift that pram out of the way and readying to take the impact, a split second decision; I know that in a similar situation I’d do the same.

There have been many cases of people killing for their children (Leon Gary Plauché) I’ve always said that I’d happily serve time for my DD and I don’t think that would change no matter her age.

I wouldn't die for my parents either. I'd give my child a kidney, for example, but I wouldn't take that risk with my parents, because it's best for my children if I don't.

In that instance, I would be going to jail.

I think a lot of those people you see making poor decisions for their children, or giving poor care, would die for them in a heartbeat. Dying for someone is actually quite easy, it's a split-second decision and an all-encompassing gesture. Living for someone is a damn sight harder and more gruelling than dying for them. I think sometimes people really like saying "I'd die for them" because it's a shorthand way of saying they mean everything to you, and saying it feels like wiping away all the substandard and imperfect stuff we all do as parents, just leaving behind the purity of the feeling you have for them without all the grimy real-world compromise stuff.

I asked dp when I was pregnant and was told me. I was annoyed, though. My baby was the right answer! Dp said we could maybe have another baby, but I am irreplaceable. But I said I would never forgive that. How could I love someone who chose for my baby to die? So it would have to be the baby saved, or dp would lose us both.

I was thinking about this a bit. I actually have kind of given my life for my child, just not through my death. It's been really hard to give up my career I worked hard for entirely, my social connections, somewhere along the way I lost my spirituality, and so much of what makes me, me. (In the context of a seriously ill child who then died).

I'm trying to work on a rebirth. Finding who I am now. It's not easy but I've found some amazing things that the former me would never have been likely to find. I don't think I'd be recognisable to people from 'before'. I'm not as happy as I was, but I think I like this new me more in many ways.

what would beating him achieve? It wouldn’t stop him going after the daughter. You can bet your bottom penny the abuser would go to the police as the victim and the dad be arrested. And it may even push her towards him again and further away from her family

in that situation those surrounding her are very much a spectator. You can support, financially, emotionally, physically. But that’s it.

its incredibly complicated and not straightforward

We have had a situation in my family where a close female relative was in an abusive relationship. It broke her parents, they tried and did everything to get her away. Worked with police, gave money, housing, confronted him, confronted his family, took her far away to other family, found her jobs, paid for therapy etc etc. Ultimately she consistently chose to go back over and over, however possible they made it for her to leave. Once she had a baby, their adored grandchild, she continued to choose him - going against social services and putting her at risk of losing her child.

That’s not blaming her - I know he’d done a number on her and I know there’s reasons why it’s so hard to get away. But ultimately they (and we all) had to deal with the fact that she’s an adult woman who made her choices and for all our talk of how we were going to lock her away somewhere to keep her safe, take her phone etc etc - in the real world it’s just not possible. And yes, serious conversations were had about fighting him, hiring someone to do him over or even paying a bloody hitman. Believe me he’d be no loss to society - but as has been said the risk of things going wrong, of going to prison etc is still there. A young, violent and sociopathic man is not necessarily going to be easy to completely incapacitate (even though my relative’s dad is also a strapping bloke at 6 foot 4) and there’s a chance it could go the other way; or he’d end up in prison and my relative would STILL go back to him, feeling even more pushed towards him by the whole ‘everyone is trying to keep us apart’ narrative.

Very very luckily my relative has finally left, and after yet more hell where it didn’t look like he was ever going to give up terrorising her and her family, he finally seems to have skunk away to whatever sewer he crawled out of - though we can never be 100% relaxed. Her parents are changed people though, and like I say pretty broken by everything they’ve watched her go through. I’m not sure it’s ever as cut and dried as you think it’s going to be to be in that situation - and saying what you’d do in a hypothetical doesn’t mean you would in reality.

I didn’t want to die, I hadn’t met the baby and I knew I could have another one/would still have a good life if I couldn’t.

As soon as he was born I would have chosen him over me, but before that I didn’t feel that connection in the same way.

And my DW didn’t want to have a newborn baby and be grieving for me- she didn’t feel she would be a good parent in that situation.

My dad had felt the same when he was told “we might not be able to save them both” and replied “please save my wife”.

We were both fine happily for him but I have never felt any resentment for him having chosen the woman he loved over a baby he hadn’t met (and they already had 3 children who needed their mum more than another sibling).

Yes I’d die for my kids in the sense of giving my life for theirs, although in real life I’m unlikely to get the chance to. I hope that I would in an emergency situation but I’m aware that it’s not possible to know how you’d act in the moment. I think I would though.

It doesn’t follow that I’d do anything at all for them eg I won’t wash my son’s football kit if he leaves it on the bedroom floor because he needs to learn to put it in the wash himself and because I am not the maid. I can see how other people might feel like this about money- being willing to die for your kids doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to subsidise them when they’re older, because financial independence is a good thing (that said, I do plan to give money to my kids, but I can understand people who don’t).

The two examples you give are really shocking, op, but unusual I think.

My dad won’t give me money as he doesn’t think it’s his responsibility, he wouldn’t watch my kids as it’s too much but he’d step in front of a bullet for me in an instant and I know that

I think when you have young children and are in the role of protector then, if course, you would do anything and everything to keep them safe.
When your children become independent adults I think it changes and expectations can be too high. If you have spent over 30 years being Mum and always coming second I think there comes a time to put yourself first.
If my adult child needed a kidney I'd be the first to offer. If my adult child fancies a new car but can't afford it, they can save up for it and make sacrifices like I do.
In the OP examples.
Suspected cancer in a mammogram. It's horrible but why did the colleague cancel the mammogram just because her parents couldn't watch her child? What kind of a parent is the colleague if she deliberately delayed getting a diagnosis for a suspected cancer because it wasn't convenient? You have a duty as a parent of young children to try and be there for them which includes accepting tests/treatment.
The colleague works (obviously) so there is some form of established childcare already. Mammograms take place during working hours so surely just drop children as usual.
No mention is made of the children's father. Why is he not looking after his own children?
If there was a strong suspicion of cancer the colleague could have taken her child with her to the mammogram (the actual scan takes less than 5 minutes). Not ideal but doable. I have seen it happen.
Why was it her parents responsibility?

Domestic Violence.
What do you think the parents should have done?
The ex-partner "tracked her down" so she had obviously moved somewhere else. Surely the first place he would have looked for her was her parents house? So it would have been foolish to stay there. Do you think they should have moved in with her? Do you think that would have stopped him?

Money
If your adult child has a one-off disaster (ie a broken boiler) and you can afford to help buy a new one that's one thing. But if an adult child chooses a lifestyle they can't afford then why would you expect a parent to step in and subsidise it? Part of being an adult and living an independent life is making life choices and paying for those decisions. That's how we learn and what we pass on to our own children.

I think it sparked an interest in some researcher into human behaviour after a high number of children were killed in some natural disaster. They looked at things like fires, wars, times were this 'me or my kid' survival question really does come up. Even in times of famine, parents could give every scrap of food to their kid, when push really does come to shove, across every culture, we save ourselves first, despite our high words.

Apparently it's a little researched area, obviously you can't do experiments on it. There's also a lot of taboo around it because parents (especially mothers!) are supposed to sacrifice everything for their kid. The hero stories where parents die saving their kid from a fire (for example) get loads of publicity, the apparently much more likely scenario of parents trampling their kids to get out themselves, don't get spoken of.

It's seen in animals as well. Mothers will fight almost to the death, to save their babies, but not quite to their actual death. The mother zebra keeps running and her baby is eaten by the lion.

It was speculated, and backed up with some maths, that without this self preservation at all costs instinct, the human race may not have survived. It was well over a decade ago that I heard the programme, it was really interesting though.

@Roseshavethorns id have expected the dad to track down the partner and absolutely wiped the floor with him.
Then happily go to the police and plead guilty knowing his DD and grandchildren were safe.
He'd get around 5-10 years for gbh, serve not even half and be out in 2.5 - 5 years.

For me that'd 100% be worth it.
If your daughter at 4.11ft comes to you and says she's waiting for ex to murder her and you know it to be true and the police can't do anything else.. what else can you do?

I wouldn't be sat there thinking 'well it's against the law to hurt him so I'll just have to let her die'

I did not know if I could have another baby, as we had tried for a long time and had ivf. I felt very connected to the baby from seeing the embryo implanted though. I did not want to die either, I just know I felt really strongly that I would never forgive that choice.

Yep, wouldn't like it though!!!!

There is a big difference between taking a bullet for your child, and helping them financially say, to buy a house. Not buying a house is not going to kill them.

There's a difference though in becoming a fool and becoming a permanent babysitter for your grandkids compared to taking a bullet for your kids which most would do.

When my twin babies died last year, I remember sitting in front of one of their incubators the day his life support was removed and wishing it was me in instead of him. I'd never felt that way about anyone before.

My dad had felt the same when he was told “we might not be able to save them both” and replied “please save my wife”.
I was talking to an obstetrician friend about this years ago. She said in labour, this 'which one to save' is never said, except on TV, and isn't a thing. The question can come up in pregnancy, if the baby is putting to much strain on the mother but never in labour.