Fiancé has agreed to be a Guarantor - I’m not happy

[workworkbloodywork]

Not sure if I’m being highly unreasonable or fully entitled to be majorly fucked off with him.

His sister has asked him to be a guarantor on a rental that they want to upsize to as the partner has recently gone self employed.

he initially asked if I would be too but I was overseas at the time as I asked for us to discuss it when I was home.

he then said that we weren’t needed as they found someone. That then fell through and so they asked if just DF would do it. Again said let’s discuss when I’m home.

ive found out today that they have a moving date and have been packing. Turns out DF has agreed to do it without any communication to me.

so YABU - it’s family, you should think twice and just sign to dotted line asap

or YANBU - as an engaged couple, decisions that affect your family unit should be discussed at length before concluding on a decision together.

This is true... it took me a good 2 years of absolute graft to earn a decent wage self employed. Still have to work hard every day, self employed is a different kettle of fish to employed in the effort taken to turn into financial success.

I wouldn't marry him or buy a house with him, because i wouldn't want to share any potential debt. I'd want to protect my mortgaged home. I'd wait until he's no longer guarantor, before getting married.

Yes. One of my kids is at uni in an expensive city. And we had to be guarantors. Of course we were going to agree. Luckily, their flatmates are financially solvent from wealthy families so have paid up. We just need to get through this final year… I would never have refused though.

The fact that they need a guarantor means that they are 'sub prime borrowers' ie not the best bet!

One unpaid invoice from the self employment, one big job on the car, or an existing debt is called in and rent will not be their priority.
If OP's fiance needs to cover the rent for them, where does that leave OP? Can he still cover his share of their outgoings? He lives with her. Or does he pay for his family, and cannot pay his share at home? That would certainly affect OP. She subsidises him, while he subsidises them.
Sure you'd love it if your other half said 'Can't contribute this month, I have to pay my family's rent.' Where would that leave you?

For all the people saying that they would do it - you must obviously have enough money/assets to cover them, and yourself, should they default - that is what you are signing up for. As long as you want to take that risk, that's fine, but don't decry those who do not wish to do this, or cannot.

She didn’t say ‘could not’. She said ‘would not’.

Also, what happens if sister can’t pay the rent. Huw long do you sub them? One month? Two? Six? If fiancé decides to get tough and say he can no longer pay, he’ll be the bad guy for making his sister homeless (even though it’s their fault for not paying).

That’s not the way it works. In most cases the guarantor is responsible for the whole of the tenancy agreement. If the the tenant falls into arrears you can’t just refuse to pay - you’ve signed an agreement in which you are legally responsible for those arrears and in many cases any damage to the property. And even after the tenancy has ended the landlord can pursue you through the courts for unpaid arrears if they have to.

If you want to end the guarantor agreement you can only do so if the landlord agrees, and if the rent is in arrears at that point, they’re not going to agree until you or the tenant settle the debt. It’s a serious commitment which has the law behind it so you can’t just back out if and when the tenant defaults.

This is a very typical example of what can go wrong - and what sometimes does go wrong. It's not a 1 in a million chance. It happens quite a lot.

Unless it's university students, and people who have absolutely no credit rating at all as they are young and still live with parents; you can bet they have a bad credit rating and I would NOT sign to be guarantor. (Actually, as has been said, unless you can comfortable afford to pay someone's debt or 1 or 2 years' rent on top of all your own bills, then do not sign a guarantor agreement!) Even if it's your own adult child!

Basically, definitely refuse to be a guarantor for them because it's very likely they've got a bad credit record. If they're not a student and they're not young/still living with parents, (and just starting out in life,) then why do they need a guarantor?

As a few posters have said, there are some breathtakingly naïve people on here. I really, genuinely think some people think being a guarantor is just giving a reference to somebody. It's not! You're signing a document promising their creditors, (and the courts, and the bailiffs,) that you will pay this person's debt if they don't pay it.

As I said, if they don't pay it, it's your debt. There is no wriggle room. There is no way out. It is a watertight agreement - and you will 100% be made to pay the money owing. If you don't, you will have possessions taken from your house - and even your car (if it's paid for, and you can't prove that you need it.)

I can't drum this into people enough! Proceed with caution.

.

I’ve not seen any evidence on this thread that parents actually understand this. As you say, where there is a joint tenancy they are guaranteeing the rent on the property, not just their childs’ contribution. I woudn’t do it.

With student accomadation, we were pre-warned, so we ensured our dc lived in flats whereby each person was responsible for their own rent, and not en masse. Therefore, if one student skipped the country, the others wouldn't be affected.

(ie four individual contracts in a house share, not one contract )

Landlords can do so in multiple tenancy agreements for students. And the guarantor in these situations is liable for the whole of the rent, so if another housemate defaults or someone leaves and the others can’t cover the shortfall, that leaves you paying up. So whether you trust your child or not is irrelevant. And not all tenancies include a break clause - even if they do the landlord can still pursue the guarantor for unpaid rent and other costs after the tenancy has ended.

So you have funds in your own bank account to cover the debt without using joint finances and you won’t need to remortgage or renew a mortgage ? Any inability to pay will impact your joint finances as you and your DH are financially linked. And if one of you is a guarantor it will affect your eligibility for a mortgage. If l found out my partner had agreed to be a guarantor without at least discussing it with me, it would be a deal breaker.

No, the issue is that OP said she wanted to discuss it when she got back and he went ahead anyway. He has no means to cover the debt himself should it arise and OP says he has no idea of the implications because he didn’t research anything before signing. And the tenant he’s guaranteeing is newly self employed - just about the highest risk of default possible. If they marry OP will be financially linked to him and their joint finances would be affected in the event of tenant default. BF may not be on the mortgage but he may be named on the house deeds, which also puts their home at risk. Any future remortgage would be affected because lenders won’t consider guarantors. He had no right to do this without prior discussion and there’s no justification for it. Huge red flag for marriage at this point..

You wouldn’t expect her to pay a penny, but in the event of you defaulting on the rent that’s exactly what the landlord would expect from her, and he would have the legal backing to pursue her for the debt. It’s not just a tick box, your mum would have signed an agreement to guarantee your rent for the whole of your tenancy agreement. Legally enforceable and potentially financially ruinous for your mum if she doesn’t have the means to pay.

I'm married but I have my own bank account as well as joint finances - I'm a guarantor for close family members and it was not a conversation I needed to have with my DH. It's my family and I'd never say no, without very very good reason. I also use my own money to lend money to family when needed. They have and would do the same for me.

So supposing you do not have this loaned money returned to you - would you still have the same standard of living, or would you expect DH to pick up the shortfall?
Should your guarantee be called in, and you have to pay up, can you still afford your contribution to your life with your husband? Or does he need to fill any shortfall?
If you really cannot afford to pay for a guarantee that has been called upon, can you ensure that your husband does not have to share any penalty ie sell your house to pay?
If so, great, crack on. If you have to think about this, then it is at the very least a joint decision, not just yours. Having your own money, in your own account is as it should be, but being married links you financially to your husband.
Do you understand that a guarantee is required because the borrower is a 'sub prime borrower'? ie not trusted.

She didn’t sign anything, it was literally a tick box

I really think some of the posters on here need to read up on being a guarantor, and what it means.
It is not:
'I know she will never let me down' 'I guarantee she is a trustworthy person'

It is a legal obligation to pay what is owed if the borrower does not. It does not matter about the reason - they become ill, they split up, they just decide not to pay, life gets on top of them. It does not matter how sad, or that they fooled you.
You have no out. You pay the debt for as long as it takes for the debt to finish. If you cannot pay, you will lose your assets.

She didn’t sign anything, it was literally a tick box

No, it was not!

YANBU at all. How long does this agreement last? Why couldn't his sister and her partner just wait to upsize until they can afford it without needing a guarantor? I will never understand these people who just want something and expect other people to enable them to have it instead of earning it themselves and saving until it's something they can comfortably afford. As for your fiance, think carefully about how much you trust him to respect you enough going forwards to include you in decisions like this. When you're married - or maybe even now - if any financial repercussions arise from this it will cost you as well as him, and you did not agree to it.

You say your DF has 'supported family members financially frequently in the past'. Not just helped out - supported. I don't know whether he has parents/other siblings around but it is noteworthy that none of them are willing or able to be guarantors for his DS - your DF seems to be the go-to person in his family whenever they want money, despite him not being particularly well off.

And if it all goes wrong and DF and his DS fall out, you can be sure that the rest of them will refuse to get involved or help, and will say that they 'don't want to take sides'.

Really I would think twice about marrying into this whole crew. And I am sorry to say, your DF is either extremely naive or an idiot.

There is always a risky reason for an adult to need a guarantor and it's nearly always because they have got themselves into a financial mess because they can't manage their finances.
In the case of my daughter's boyfriend, it came to light that he had defaulted on at least 3 car loans and a credit card.
If someone has been unable to pay their bills in the past, it's a pretty good indicator that they will be unable to pay the rent.

There is always a risky reason for an adult to need a guarantor and it's nearly always because they have got themselves into a financial mess because they can't manage their finances.

That’s not true. My son needed a guarantor simply because his income was deemed insufficient to pay the rent, despite his former rent being more. We decided not to go down the guarantor route and I lent him six months rent to pay upfront and he paid his rent to me instead of the landlord. No risky reason or financial mess, he can manage his finances better than me.

But then you cannot take the partners income into account for borrowing purposes either.,

You need to protect your finances. Which marriage or a joint mortgage may not do. You really need to find out at what point his financial problems also become your financial problems, and stay on the side of protecting yourself.

You risk him/his family seeing your assets as part of a bigger pot they can benefit from

In a nutshell, and especially the first sentence

Given that he's "supported them before" - don't they have any other family to help? - it may be that he enjoys playing Billy Big Balls without the actual assets to do it, though probably eyeing OP's as a back up

As said, for me the marriage would be on hold at least until his whole attitude had been gone into thoroughly and the way forward made clear - though since he's done this already he could still easily "help" behind OP's back