to get pissed off with all those surveys that say working mums screw kids up...because I'm fine ..are you guys? did your mum work? we need to sort this argument out once and for all!

[MicrowaveOnly]

Because that's the real question some of the age old threads could be asking

my mum worked and I am fine ... but TBH - her working is a huge factor in me deciding to WAHM. She only worked p/t as a teacher when I was in primary school (although I still came home to an empty house quite often when I was 6 or 7, depending on her teaching timetable), but when I started secondary school she was offered a very demanding and high-powered position in the ministry of education. My dad was in a high-powered governmental position himself then so they'd usually come home at 7pm, and at least once a week one of them or both would have an evening do to attend, too.
I spent my afternoons bored and lonely, watching Love Boat and the Waltons or baking cakes, or I'd wander round town and eat at McDonalds (I put on a huge amount of weight in about 6 months). I remember getting threatened by a couple of men once whilst walking the dog in the afternoon and ringing my mum in tears, only to have her tell me off for bothering her at work
It really wasn't a terribly nice time for me, I was only 10 when she started and as school in Germany finishes at 1pm on most days, usually had a very long afternoon at home on my own. I'm not saying that she shouldn't have taken the job - but my parents should have maybe put a little bit more thought into ensuring I wasn't always alone. They always tried to buy me off then as well - I was usually given plenty of money and told to go to Pizza Hut or McD's or whatever. Not great IMO!

I go against the flow a bit here, but it's not straightforward.

My mum worked. Extremely high powered career in pharmaceuticals, ground breaking for women of her generation. I admire her hugely for her career successes and achievements. What she has done for malaria sufferers and AIDS patients deserves utmost respect and as an adult I can see that.

As a child I was pushed from pillar to post. Kept in boarding school and childcare (from 2 weeks). It affected me deeply. I felt she never had time for us and the time she did have was overshadowed with work commitments. She was away on business trips for weeks at a time.

However, I accept that this is the extreme. And by and large women with careers (or even men) these days wouldn't necessarily have to completely give their all.

And to an extent I think it affected my mum too. When I was 15 and my sis 17 I distinctly remember her coming in to the kitchen one day and saying "oh my two girls, what happened to your childhood". And my sis and I just looked at each other as if to say, well it was you who wasted it. With adulthood that feeling has mellowed. Mum also is ploughing so much energy in to her grandkids she's almost living our childhood through them.

The upshot is that I would never work to the extent that she did. I want to be there until my children are school age, and then maybe something part time.

But then I'm not a budding scientist destined to develop life-saving drugs so it's a pretty easy decision to make...

This debate needs to move on.

While women are engrossed with beating each other over the head with their briefcases and rolling pins (pick your weapon of choice, ladies), the REAL debate - which is how the world of work needs to adapt to accommodate child-raising - is neglected.

I've opted out. I'm starting my own business so I can work the hours that suit me and my family.

The idea that 9-6, Mon-Fri represents the only way to run a business is outdated crap.

Flexibility in how you earn income is the key to happily-balanced family life, not this simplistic EITHER / OR debate.

Weegle, I bet many WOH dads feel that way as well

my mum worked full time as a single parent, she left before me in the morning and got home after me. when i was smaller her aunt looked after me and as i approached my teenage years my aunt developed alzheimers and i cared for her. My mum left school at 14 with no educational qualifications, was low paid and we never had holidays, except an occasional caravan and didn't really have many fancy things. she died of cancer 17 years ago. I was brought up to be able to be very self sufficient as regards relationships, to be able to do DIY type things, or earn my money to pay someone else to do it for me. I work full time and bring up my DCs myself. I do believe that if your mum worked you're more likely to work yourself once you have kids. I made sure that i did as well at school as possible, although there really wasn't the money for me to go to uni ( I needed to go and bring in a wage)

I'm not fucked up, I'm tired though! My kids aren't fucked up, they're wonderful, do very well at school and have amazing ambitions thati encourage as much as possible.

the daily hate is only happy if women stay in their alloted place. I don't care if other women stay at home and fail to see why anyone should try to guilt me into marrying some other bloke so i can stay at home or giving up my job and claiming benefits, because then the daily hate will have a whole different lot of bile to spit at me!

My parents both worked and I'm fine, as is my sister (and we are both working mothers as in paid work). The things that did affect us are stuff such as my dad being a twonk and my mother being made redundant later on as a single parent in a recession and our house being repossessed.

We are both proud of our mother for what she achieved (and continues to achieve) and got some fantastic side benefits such as meeting jolly interesting people through her work (and hanging round TV studios at one stage).

Women on the WOHM/SAHM threads who say 'why have children if you aren't prepared to make sacrifices a. don't know they are born and b. are clearly bloody insecure - why put people down if you are happy with what you are doing?

I'm still working through mothering issues. My mum worked full time and was utterly, 100%, a professional (IT/ management) first and a mum second. So it's not the fact that she wasn't there, it's the fact that a corporate giant was more important to her than my sister and I were. My sister has her own issues with it - she is determined to be a SAHM as a result, I hope there is a middle way, to do a job I love, and come home to a family I love far more.

StealthPolarBear - yes I'm sure many dads feel that too. And it's wrong that for many years women's options have been a bit all or nothing. And of course the same for working men. I think BrummieOnTheRun is right that society needs to change as a whole to allow flexibility to family's lives that all member's needs can be met in as balanced way as possible. But each of us is bound to draw on our own childhood experiences for how we choose to bring up our children. I am extremely fortunate in that I don't HAVE to work (although things are tight, and I have a disability to boot), but I'm glad I could make that decision. In time I will go back to running my own business which can be done in non-normal hours and so hopefully achieve the balance that I believe is right for my family. And at the end of the day that's all anyone can do - what they believe is right for their family.

My mother working didn't mess me up, my father beating the crap out of her every night before she finally escaped, did that job quite nicely.

my dad worked, didn't screw me up. Or my brother.

Weegle, yes, sorry I wasn't disagreeing with you. I think it's really sad that your mum feels that way.

Isn't it just the case that mums get the blame for any woes that befall a person?

Whatever they do? (and not just because of whether they worked or not).

Your OP is hardly balanced though is it Micro? SAHMs seemed a bit dull?

My Mum was a single parent a worked fulltime. I had a lovely childhood and a great relationship with my Mum. When I was a teenager and then adult my Mum did not find it too difficult to let go as she had another life too. This was not the case for some of my friends wose mums had stayed at home. When they grew up their mums found it really difficult to let go. In the case of one friend her mother's clingyness has nearly ruined her adult life.

I work 3 days a week and DD has a nanny who she adores. I do not feel guilty at all, in fact I would have more guilt if I were a moody, bored SAHM, as I know I would be if I did not work at all.

My parents both worked from necessity. Can't see that it messed up my sister or me...

you will never 'sort this out'.
Because there are a few people who don't want to sort it out - they want their decision to be right and everyone elses to be wrong. Because they are knobs.
If you read the thread it is easy to jump from aggressive opinionated post to aggressive opinionated post when actually in between there are hundreds of posts saying parents should just do what makes them happiests in their circumstances and thus the child will be happy, as long as it is loved and cherished. That seeems to me to be a very simple truth.
But while people are either humungusly arrogant and insensitive or are defensive about their own choices then these threads will continue until the end of time

Good try though at the 'once and for all' malarky

Agree with Freckle.

My mum worked and SAH at various stages. Neither screwed me up.

Adulterous father did.

So - work, stay at home - do whatever makes you happy.

DON'T f*ck around.

I defend anyone's right to rant on here and agree MN would be the poorer if they couldn't. However, I have noticed that many of the rants follow someone reading (or having brought to their attention because of course they don't actually read it, you know) the DM.

We all know that the DM is full of crap. Ergo they will print stuff which pisses us off. Why torture yourselves by "reading" it??

I completely agree that working mothers DO NOT screw children up, and anyone who says that they do deserves a sharp stick up the backside. However, I think the OP is mistaken in her belief that that is what the debates come down to - the debates are a lot more nuanced than that (for a start, a lot of the discussion is about what fathers should do, and - as weegle says - what the state should do).

Plus, as unknownrebelbang says, I dislike the inference in the OP that SAHPs are dull.

My mum worked because she loved it, and because when she left my father he refused to pay her any maintenance.

She works now, travelling the world at 70 working in war torn countries.

when younger we went with her

she is an inspiration to me as well as many other women

And I am fine and work full time! and my kids are fabulous and doing really well

Both my parents have worked full time all their lives, whilst raising 3 children. They have good jobs that are very well paid, but we always had a good standard of living so they couldn't afford to not work. Every single one of us has turned out ok, I think.

My mum came from the 'independant woman' generation, she wanted it all. She worked full time, studied, raised 3 kids, kept the house ticking over etc. To my mum, being a stay at home mum was never an option. She wouldn't have liked it, she was itching to get back to work after mat leave, loved her kids, hated being at home being a 'housewife'.

We were all well looked after, and we all knew we were loved. I had the best childhood a child could ask for. My parents were always there for me, always had time for me. Still are, still do!

My mum worked and was so exhausted most of the time that she didn't have much energy for her kids. I would have preferred some time and energy from my mum to our expensive private educations.

BUT I think it is a big mistake for women to give up economic independence and that is why I work part time myself.

See, I keep asking on all these threads: where ARE these surveys? Let us see 'em. cos some of them are shite; some of them are OK but need to be taken in context and within the pattern of research as a whole.

And just to stir it all up again

My mum worked part-time, then full-time. My dad worked full-time and this involved working away from home.

DHs mum never worked when he was little but had to when they "fell on hard times" - she is of the stepford-wife generation that was not "allowed" to work.

Both of us are fine. I never grew up thinking my parents didn't have time for us, we did the normal family things together.

I work 4 days and DH works long hours and is often away with work but our kids are also fine - or appear to be. BTW I've never tried to over compensate by buying my kids endless stuff just to try and make up for working, although I know loads of people who have/do - but then I know people who don't work and do this with their kids just to get a bit of peace.

Do you know, away from MN most of the mothers who work aren't going to fabulously rewarding careers. Most of the working mothers I know are sad that they have to leave their young children (might be different if I knew mothers of older children) because they have to pay extortionate housing costs, etc. For most people in this country, work is what you do to pay the bills and is actually quite dull.

What we need is support for mothers who want to stay at home with their children, and support for those who want to go out to work. And for people to accept that working does not damage children, and that not working does not make one a dullard I am a SAHM and if anyone wants a full list of my interests, activities and achievements they can apply online!