..To be mortified at the treatment of rape victims at the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre?

[TorghunKhan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

No women only spaces for 16 months. Basically women, RAPED women - were told they could not definitely see a woman to help them with such an awful crime, they might have to see a man in a dress, and if they objected they were to be 're eductaed' by the man in charge - a man who himself applied for, and got!! a job which was supposed to be only filled by a woman.

It's shameful, disgusting, but whats worse is how many people put up with it!! Who thought this was ok?! why did nobody do anything, or say anything FOR YEARS

Fuck kind. Who was kind to the rape survivors?

One of the women on my team has a non binary child, which to be clear she is accepting of. Whenever conversation around that comes up in the office, healthy debate is fine, but I absolutely wouldn’t accept anyone being rude to her about it.

so if you were all sitting around at tea break and the debacle in Edinburgh came up, and the mother of the non-binary child said "yes that member of staff was perfectly right to insist that they, despite posession of a vagina, refused to be identified as a woman to a traumatised rape victim" and i told her to pull her head out of her ass and try some empathy - you'd think i was being a nasty bigot and she would be right?

where are the lines here, just so we know.

Do you think that a man not thinking he's a man changes reality? It doesn't. He's still a man.

And as for the motives for being in women's single sex spaces, there are so, so many examples that again, I'd think you'd have to be trying quite hard not to notice them. Here is a small selection to be going on with

If someone else’s reality is that they identify as a man, woman, anything else - what has that got to do with me, and why would it change my status as a woman.

The whole point of this thread shows how someone else's pseudo reality affects others, in the most disastrous ways. It's quite embarrassing at this stage in the thread to come on here with the faux 'but not all trans', or disingenuous bullshit if I want to be 'outwardly unkind'.

Don't you see @murasaki we've pivoted from this indefensible situation to shift the focus to random colleagues of the poster and their "non binary child" who isn't even there but must of course be humoured with non sex based pronouns, statements of support for their kid's "identity" etc.

To me "healthy debate" includes being able to say "there is no such thing as "non binary", all humans can be described as such because none of us are binary". And to point out the regressive sexism of it.

Also, just so you know, @SleeplessInWherever this case revolves around the callousness and unreasonable self absorption of a "non binary" person.

Regardless of whether she’s right, or wrong - that exact way of phrasing it would be a problem. Surely.

My point remains, we could try speaking to each other like human beings instead of whatever this is.

I’m not saying anyone is bigoted, like I said earlier - each to their own, other people have views.

I just think there’s a difference between having an opinion, and speaking to people like shit.

Nobody’s really interested in a view that you don’t share? Weird.

No, I'm not interested in what you think when you haven't read the thread. Hope that helps.

You agree that single sex spaces should be protected so what reason would you give to the transwomen (who I would call men) as to why they should not use those spaces?

I don't really care what motives individual men have to use female single sex spaces I just want to keep them out of female single sex spaces.

It's completely eye-opening that on this thread, which cohort The Righteous are most concerned about reminding the Naughty People not to be discourteous, unkind or impolite to.

Why would you think anyone here owes you an apology? Now that's weird.

I appreciate this has apparently been used as an “excuse” before, but it really isn’t “all” anyone. Is it.

In what world do all of one certain group of people have exactly the same ideas, motives and attitudes.

In what world? This one. Where men (and a lot of women unfortunately) want others to accept them as something they are not, and by default into spaces where they shouldn’t be. It’s a shared idea, motive and attitude. Women don’t have to accept it.

The reason that those spaces are inhabited by women at their most vulnerable.

Anyone with any sense would be able to accept that, especially if they’re self-identifying within that group.

Personally I see no issue with having men’s toilets, women’s toilets, and a “general” one. Space and logistics doesn’t always work like that, but that’s how those spaces should work IMO.

Then nobody has to be in a situation they’re uncomfortable with.

But what would be your answer when they say they are a woman so should not be excluded? Or are you going to pretend that wouldn't happen?

@SleeplessInWherever you've been quite clear about the contempt you hold for us "angry" women discussing women's rights on this thread about the problems with gender identity ideology at Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre. So why would you think people should be particularly interested in your opinions about trans issues in general? They sound like you've given the matter all of 5 minutes' thought, to me.

Anyone with any sense would be able to accept that, especially if they’re self-identifying within that group.

But they don't accept, and they don't understand because "self identifying" has fuck all to do with being female.

This is the linchpin of transgenderism. Women simply matter less.

In all honesty - no idea, because I’ve never had that argument before.

As long as in this example everyone has the opportunity to go to a toilet, I don’t really see an issue.

Why are you trying to make this about toilets? It isn't about toilets, just like it isn't about pronouns

Toilets and pronouns are not the be all and end all of the issue.

But that's not what happened at ERCS is it? No raped woman went to ERCS and said she objected to their being men's, women's and shared spaces, because that's not what there was. There was shared (but pretending to be single sex) or nothing.

TRAs don't want third spaces. Do Stonewall campaign for third spaces? GIRES, Mermaids? No. Why do you think that is?

Also I noticed we've gone from 'transpeople want to be in single sex spaces because they feel they belong there' to 'sensible trans people accept they don't belong in single sex spaces and are fine with that'.

Because distracting with toilet/pronoun/manners squirrels might make the Naughty People forget that this thread is about raped women being retraumatised by Righteous ideology.

I think what is quite clear is the only opinion that matters here is the one that agrees with the mass opinion.

And not to return to an old point - I’ve never questioned the context of the original post or the people involved, what I’ve said is that the debate IMO becomes unhealthy, and targeted. Which you are sort of evidencing right now.