..To be mortified at the treatment of rape victims at the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre?

[TorghunKhan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyky7kj9o

No women only spaces for 16 months. Basically women, RAPED women - were told they could not definitely see a woman to help them with such an awful crime, they might have to see a man in a dress, and if they objected they were to be 're eductaed' by the man in charge - a man who himself applied for, and got!! a job which was supposed to be only filled by a woman.

It's shameful, disgusting, but whats worse is how many people put up with it!! Who thought this was ok?! why did nobody do anything, or say anything FOR YEARS

Well that source blows the 'didnt know about concerns' line firmly off the planet doesn't it?

Receipts.

That really is shocking.

Pronouns are not part of this case. The focus is and should be on the callous treatment of women and girls by ERCC due to genderist agenda pushing and a misogynistic male trans person at the top of the organisation.

It's interesting to me that sooner or later on every thread where it is clear that gender ideology is causing major real world damage to actual humans (almost always women and /or children but y'know those are types of humans), posters need to come along and belittle our outrage and pain at what has happened.

By, for instance, referring to those who care about it as 'be(ing) on Twitter all day long arguing about other people’s choices'.

Speaking for myself, other people's choices are all good with me, up to the point at which they impact on others. And the wish of some to be seen as what they are not, cannot help but impact others. Women are allowed to talk about that impact. Sorry not sorry.

Agreed. I won't say any more about the more extreme views expressed which divert from this issue.

It's interesting to me that sooner or later on every thread where it is clear that gender ideology is causing major real world damage to actual humans (almost always women and /or children but y'know those are types of humans), posters need to come along and belittle our outrage and pain at what has happened.

By, for instance, referring to those who care about it as 'be(ing) on Twitter all day long arguing about other people’s choices'.

Speaking for myself, other people's choices are all good with me, up to the point at which they impact on others. And the wish of some to be seen as what they are not, cannot help but impact others. Women are allowed to talk about that impact. Sorry not sorry.

This.

Don't be simplistic. You may be called on to be formal with someone and use either Sir Or Madam. Thats fair, normal and called for. Whats not called for is lying.

Itd be one thing for there to be concerned raised privately that no one else knew about.

This is a fucking letter dated from several years ago in the Scottish government archives!

Speaking for myself, other people's choices are all good with me, up to the point at which they impact on others. And the wish of some to be seen as what they are not, cannot help but impact others. Women are allowed to talk about that impact. Sorry not sorry.

Exactly this. Being compelled to refer to someone as something they manifestly are not has huge consequences for respect for reality, clear expression of people's rights, freedom of speech.

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command 1984.

Chilling that it's come to this

It's hard to argue that gender ideology isn't having an impact.

What's fascinating is seeing the ever increasingly batshit attempts to pretend differently and hide the evidence.

I wasn’t looking for an apology, or really an explanation.

More an observation that any conversation about a damaging situation (the original discussion) becomes a wider discussion about trans issues and women’s issues as a whole. Lots of passionate language about fighting, resisting etc.

I can’t speak for the trans community, as I’m not trans, but my assumption is that generally - they’re not fighting anyone. They’re trying to go about their lives in a way that they want to, and no part of me understands why I’m supposed to be bothered about that.

If someone else’s reality is that they identify as a man, woman, anything else - what has that got to do with me, and why would it change my status as a woman. That I was born and remain a woman isn’t threatened by someone else’s life choices.

Each to their own, and I’m not aiming to belittle anyone - I genuinely don’t get it.

I can’t speak for the trans community, as I’m not trans, but my assumption is that generally - they’re not fighting anyone. They’re trying to go about their lives in a way that they want to, and no part of me understands why I’m supposed to be bothered about that.

disingenuous bullshit. This very thread is about one reason WHY we should tread very carefully when indulging people's wish to "change gender"

if they aren't "fighting anyone" why the fuck don't they allow tramautised women seeking theraputic support to say "i want to be sure i am in contact only with women"? Why? who does that hurt? WOMEN THAT IS WHO

“They,” or that one trans person?

Nobody’s doubting that one person is in the wrong, I’m just not sure I believe that represents an entire community.

Do you really think that wadwha would have been appointed if he was the only one fighting for men to be in women's rape crisis spaces?
Is he also the only person fighting for men to be in women's
Prisons
Sport
Changing rooms
Toilets
Providing intimate care to disabled women

So outside of this case, you don’t believe or are aware that there are other cases, instances, experiences, of women being adversely affected (like losing their jobs) by not adhering to trans ideology, by trans people and/or supporters of trans ideology? Hmmm.

Firstly, they don’t see themselves as men - so they’re not fighting for men to be anywhere. Not outwardly anyway.

I also agree that those places should ALL be protected spaces. But it’s the motives behind those who want to be in them, that I view differently. I think trans people feel that they belong in those spaces with us, and that’s why they want to be there.

I’m not suggesting we have to agree with that, but they’re not all out to get us.

There’s a difference between not adhering, and being outwardly unkind.

One of the women on my team has a non binary child, which to be clear she is accepting of. Whenever conversation around that comes up in the office, healthy debate is fine, but I absolutely wouldn’t accept anyone being rude to her about it.

I wasn’t looking for an apology, or really an explanation.

For some reason you wish to make this thread all about you and your personal musings though. It isn't about you and no one is really interested in whether you think men are women. It's about a clear example of what gender identity ideology does to women's rights.

And again, pronouns and "courtesy" are not what this thread is about. It's specifically about Mridul Wadhwa and the other enablers of cruelty to women and dereliction of their duty of care to rape survivors.

Firstly, they don’t see themselves as men - so they’re not fighting for men to be anywhere. Not outwardly anyway.

I don't care how they see themselves. They are literally fighting for men.

ffs are you #NotAllTrans / #NotAllMen here?

pack it in

If someone else’s reality is that they identify as a man, woman, anything else - what has that got to do with me, and why would it change my status as a woman. That I was born and remain a woman isn’t threatened by someone else’s life choices.

This thread is an example of exactly how it changes all women's status as a woman, when we change 'woman' from a biologically based factual category to a feeling. If 'woman' changes from a description for an adult human female to a description of an unknowable unquantifiable feeling, of course it changes your status as a woman! 'Woman' is then a descriptor for the group of people who have 'woman feeling', instead of the group of people with female bodies.

I'm not a woman because I feel like a woman, what does feeling like a women feel like? How would I or anyone know if I'm doing it ?I don't have a woman gender identity, what is gender other than a load of stereotypes about what males and females 'should' wear or like? It's a literal fact that I am a woman as I am an adult human female.

If 'woman' is an identity, anyone who says they're a woman is one. And so can be in the rape crisis centre with all the other women. And that's what happened at ERCS, and that's how we got this thread. You'd have to be trying quite hard not to see the problem to not get that, I'd have thought.

You didn’t exactly answer the question though.

How are you defining ‘outwardly unkind’?

I believe ‘non-binary’ is a nonsensical concept, (not to mention that declaring yourself non-binary surely then makes you binary, as you’re now one or the other but that’s for a different discussion). Am I unkind for believing that?

If 'woman' is an identity, anyone who says they're a woman is one. And so can be in the rape crisis centre with all the other women. And that's what happened at ERCS, and that's how we got this thread. You'd have to be trying quite hard not to see the problem to not get that, I'd have thought.

Indeed.

There’s a difference between not adhering, and being outwardly unkind.

i reserve the right to be "outwardly unkind" to any man (however he sees himself) telling victims of the most egregious male crime to "reframe their trauma" so they aren't being bigots.

Loudly and repeatedly. Again, your last posts are disingenuous twaddle. You may not frequent FWR but plenty of us do. We have seen all the excuses before. Now someone, finally, is being held accountable. And yet we must still #BeKind.

Fuck. That. Shit.

Itd be one thing for there to be concerned raised privately that no one else knew about.

This is a fucking letter dated from several years ago in the Scottish government archives!

The amount of times genderists parrot that no rape survivor has ever had a problem with it. This is a self evident lie from what we know about ERCC, and even if the Scottish government didn't have this information their gaslighting is unforgivable considering they had received this submission.