To not discuss my finances with DH?

[probablymenow]

The consensus is probably that I am unreasonable but I don’t really know how else to address this.

DH and I do have massively different salaries - his is more than double mine and probably nearly triple. I’m part time he’s full time. I pay for childcare (not cheap) groceries etc. he pays for the mortgage bills etc.

Over the last year he’s become increasingly antagonistic about money matters and it’s reached the point now where I just pay for what I need and pay my things out or my salary and I don’t discuss anything relating to money with him.

Cab this even work? I’m guessing most people will say not. On the other hand it’s the only sticky point in the relationship (admittedly a big one) and so quite honestly it just feels easier to pay for what I need and get on with life.

I think your only option is to sit him down and have the confrontation. Force him to articulate why he thinks his debt is your fault. See if you can make him actually say that he's blaming your lower pay due to the children he wanted, if that is the case, because he might actually feel how ridiculous that is.

If he still thinks that point of view is reasonable then that would be the end for me!

I don’t really know about my own parents to be honest although my dad could be a stingy git! His parents pool finances as far as I know but I think they e never had a huge amount however probably true dad gets more of a ‘say.’

This situation won’t be resolved until you are BOTH transparent and honest about your finances which is never going to happen.
I really don’t know what you hope to achieve from this thread.

It seems to me OP at the heart of what you’re saying is that your husband doesn’t see you as a unit a team that will stand together and face the storms of life together. It sounds as if he uses finances to keep himself separate from and possibly in competition with you and by extension your children and this is a hurtful and damaging place to be. Wedding vows are a bit diluted these days but the’ everything I have I give you’ is the legal truth and perhaps your husband has never really bought into that concept. And maybe it didn’t matter when you were both earning and had more freedom - but now it does. How you can change his mindset I don’t really know but I agree with you it’s about something more fundamental than who pays what bills. He could be struck down tomorrow and become dependent on you I imagine he would find that very hard . I wish you all the best in your future.

I’ve answered what I hoped to achieve from the thread: if nothing else it’s allowed me to get some things off my chest so that’s helpful to me even if you don’t think I should have posted it.

There should be no resentment whatsoever within marriage regarding who earns more & who pays for what. There will always be someone in the partnership who earns less especially when children arrive,maternity leave then part time etc if required. It's a pity your DH is taking this stance OP. Women feel guilty enough when their spouses earn more without having it rubbed in their face. He should man up & accept he is married with a family and with that comes financial responsibilities he shouldn't be complaining about just because he takes on the bigger share.

Thank you so much for this helpful and kind post.

Are you able to comfortably afford groceries and childcare out of your salary? Do you have to scrimp and save? If not, then if your husband is paying mortgage/bills etc ( which are huge), then I don't think it's a big problem. If you are short of cash and feel uncomfortable asking him for money, then I see that as a problem

Cars! CARS. I have just lost all sympathy. I thought it was debt for essential stuff.

How dare he make you feel guilty for having small children and working only part time when it was a joint choice? If he only waited it out a bit, your DC would grow up and your childcare bill would go down.

I think if you choose to have children, you need to make a few sacrifices. Maybe not give up everything but expensive cars, yes.

The avoidance is a helpful start to unpacking it all. A professional counselor might be able to dig deeper or provide techniques, but ultimately you're going to have to grit your teeth and accept that you will have to go through bad feelings and rows to get to the other side of this.

Avoidance is understandable! No one likes bad feelings or rows (well I guess some people do but at least you're not one of them). But sometimes they're unavoidable - if you want a resolution.

Honest communication - not only about finances but about everything - is the bedrock of a healthy relationship. From that, everything else flows.

This! I'm sorry you're having a hard time on the thread OP- the more you post the more unreasonable your DH sounds. I hope you won't regret posting and the thread will help you find your anger to keep pushing this rather than let his antagonism silence you and you end up struggling alone (as with the £500 issue). Good luck OP

I find it really interesting that you say you have a strong marriage other than this, because I have been married for nearly 30 years, and from my point of view, your marriage doesn't stand a chance in Hell of going the distance. What I see is a marriage that is on very, very thin ice. Do you think you have always had low expectations for how you should be treated? Some of the things you've written imply that his attitude, to you, is just "one of those things" and not the really big deal they are.

I mean so - thinking out loud here - in three years childcare costs are gone, mostly, and the money I currently spend on childcare could be switched to the mortgage. Which would be more than half of it. I could even pay that comfortably myself. It’s like he can’t see out of the here and now.

Probably @Aquamarine1029 . I am not an attractive woman and still can’t quite believe someone wanted to marry me: but either way here we are.

OP - I can see what you're asking here.

On MN, there are a disproportionate amount of women who are in marriages, with children, who believe separate finances in a marriage / family is totally fine and normal. Some women have even convinced themselves that it's 'independence.'

But in all cases, when you get to the actual crux of the set up - it comes down to the same thing - ie, these women know, depp down, when all is said and done, that their DH would never share finances anyway.

Su they are left with a choice basically - either to convince themselves fine - it's 'independence' or whatever. Or leave.

It sounds to me this is the realisation you are having.

The way I see it is this - if a couple are going to share their DNA to bring new human beings into this world, the very first thing they should be able to do is share bank accounts! How can you be having kids if you can't even manage that?

There are some men (a lot on here, by the sound of it) who seem to think it's all fine and normal to do the 'my money, her money' thing.

It has nothing to do with amounts and who has this and that and what's fair blah blah blah. At the end of the day, it's a mentality. A deep rooted insecurity. At its core is an intransigent need to control... or something. Lack of trust? Lack of respect? Lack of commitment? Selfishness?

The fact is - in the eyes of the law, all marital money are shared. He can frame it how he likes, but that is the reality. It's so petty and pathetic to have financial divisions. You have children ffs! That ship has sailed. Who could be bothered with all this you pay for this and I pay for that?' You are a family! It all goes the same way regardless. You surely have the children's interests first and foremost. Who could be bothered?

You are absolutely correct that it comes down to some deep-rooted psychological issue on his part. Of course it will manifest in other areas of your marriage too. If you can't even share money - why bother? You are are essentially living as separate entities, not as a unit.

What happened to 'all that I am I share with you?' As if the wedding vows are - 'Well I'll do part-time and you carry on full-time and I'll pay this and you pay that and I'll have my money and you have yours.' What is the actual point?

Basically, I'm sorry you are in this situation. At least you're waking up to it though, which is more than a lot of women on here.

There's no point talking to him about this because frankly, it shouldn't need explaining. If he's an adult and hasn't grasped this basic stuff for himself, he never will. I'm sorry to sound blunt, but men like this are stunted and it's shouldn't be your job to help them function normally.

I totally understand your frustration and worry about how to move forward. His antagonism and digs might be his way of coping with stress, either because money is haemorrhaging or because he has got himself into debt. Or it might just be a need to control.
My suggestion would be that you inform yourself of all the finances, spend etc and create a spreadsheet. At the end of it you will have a better understanding of the situation and possibly an opening for a discussion, ask him to read it, ask him when a good time to talk is, ask him to add anything you have missed. You will either get nowhere and still
have a dilemma, get a discussion where you may have to do a bit of not reacting, get a proper discussion and a joint plan or you learn something that is a dealbreaker. Is the house in both names, is the mortgage in both names, any significant debt?
You may still have to make a choice but it will be an informed choice.

Hi Op. The problem appears to be:
Your husband is struggling financially
Partly due to debts (for cars???)
He is blaming you for having children/him being poorer
He is making digs at you.
Attempts to discuss things end in arguments?.

The issue is not how your money is set up or who pays for what or what is fair. The issue seems to be his resentment? And treatment of you?

It doesn't really matter how your money is split as long as it is fair.
You won't know if it's fair if he won't speak to you about it.

His behaviour, making passive aggressive digs and to discus things is not helpful and sounds abusive.
Are you afraid of him?
You might benefit from having a chat with women's aid or someone as you do not deserved to be bullied/belittled/trapped by someone over money (which it sounds like you might be) ? They should be able to help you get things clear in your head and think through your options.

Good luck.
You don't have to put up with this.

I don’t mind separate finances but as things stand I literally can’t talk to him about it. If I told him I will be £500 ‘down’ next month he will be fretting and fussing and every time I go to the co op asking if I can afford it … it’s easier not to bother.

Why do you 'not mind' separate finances?

Oh OP you are being financially abused. Fussing about you going to the Co Op and asking if you can afford groceries, while he spends money on cars!

Nobody should ever begrudge their spouse Co op groceries; it's not Harrods!

Have you suggested a joint account into which you both pay an agreed amount (based on what you earn, so his agreed amount is significantly higher) and out of which all joint expenses are paid - mortgage, bills, childcare, family holidays, groceries etc. Then use your own account for funding personal spending/savings/gifts etc

The issue appears to be the husband can't/won't discuss it. :(

Not sure if anyone else responded to this, but I can assure you it is not a myth that children get more expensive as they get older.

Yes you are not paying nursery fees monthly, but instead you are now paying.

Regular activities; sports, dance, swimming etc x 2 kids - adds up fast (and will be a lot more if they want to do any of them competitively).
After-school care
Summer camps
Occasional babysitting
Presents get more expensive, tech etc
Kids parties
'branded' Clothes, uniform costs
Constantly updating equipment bikes, scooters, ski's etc
By 12/13 you are basically feeding 4 adults cost wise.
By 17 driving costs, car insurance
Then you have university costs on the horizon...

Just to illustrate that you might need to dicuss all this with your husband, or he might be under the opinion you are going to absorb all the future costs on your own.

I think a joint account would have made things ten times worse.
Why though?
If there was no children I would say fair enough, keep things separate if that's what you want to do.

However you are ( or at least should be)a committed team
There have been times in my relationship when dh was made redundant and went self employed and he literally had no money in our early days, and i was the earner. There's been times when I've been on mat leave and he was earning decent money.
Between us there was no resentment and we both supported and helped each other.
The way I see it is you both live in the same house and use the same utilities. The child belongs to both of you so why not just have a pot to pay for those things. As the child gets older and more expensive ( wait until the teen years) how are you going to decide who pays for what then.

It is really weird that you can't talk about finances when you are married to him.

@probablymenow

I think I get where you're coming from. He 'isn't happy' financially, but neither are you. He resents 'you putting him in debt' (his feelings, not mine) and you resent not being able to have a reasonable discussion about finances without it turning into some sort of blame-fest. And you resent having to hide purchases/expenses even though you have the money to pay for them because he gets 'attitude'.

The thing is, this isn't going to change. Even if you were to 'up' your family contributions it won't make him happy because he'll just find something else to spend 'his' money on and he'll end up back in the same place. Because he needs to prove to himself that it's his money not family money and the way to do that is spend it.

I think you need to think about the probability of living this way for the rest of your life. You covering more and more to keep him 'sweet' and him still being resentful and spending his money to the detriment of your finances and possibly your financial future as you find yourself spending money that should really be invested for your own future and your retirement or even paying foryour children's higher education. Is this really the way you want to live the next 30-40-50 years?

Look, I'm not saying to LTB tomorrow, I'm just saying to look at the scenario of your financial future with him vs your financial future on your own. Especially in light of the fact that the likelihood of him changing is virtually nil. So it will be YOU ponying up to keep his mouth shut.