Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

[whatswiththerain]

We are so exhausted with it. We put her to bed and she (dd6) will demand a drink/snack/toy/phone and scream for hours refusing to go to bed until she gets what she wants.
Of course we try not to give in but she won't stop and there gets a point where we can't take any more and give in so when we try and be stronger the next time she just fights for longer.
It's every night and bedtime is just an example, tonight she had spaghetti bolognaise and wanted cheese on top she got that and ate the cheese first and screamed and refused to eat anymore without more cheese.
If we give a consequence she'll scream and scream about it and as much as we know giving in is the problem, it's become so much of a problem that it takes over the whole evening and nighttime until we are so exhausted with her we just have to give in because we have no energy left and need to go to bed.
I know we've done this ourselves but I don't know to change it now it's done.

Come off it - a two year old understands the word no. You can tell, because they use it.

When your dd is calm explain to her that mummy will not be tolerating this any more and that you are aware that giving in to her screaming is making her behaviour worse. In no uncertain terms - mummy is now putting her foot down this cannot continue.
If she starts to scream a gentle reminder that this will no longer work and there will be consequences. Eg at dinner a reminder, then if you continue to scream you can just go to bed now. She will not starve from missing one meal. If she continues to scream at bedtime immediate sanctions are best. When my dd was little she kept screaming, getting out of bed and taking her toys. I took up bin bags and removed all her toys immediately and told her while she could still play with them during playtimes she was not grown up enough to have toys in her room anymore. We got her the sun and moon clock, a small basket at the side of her bed and added a notepad, pencil, book and told her that she was not allowed out of bed when the moon was on and the only things she was allowed were in the basket. It took about a week of her continuing to get up and being put back for it to sink in. She was younger than your dd so may take longer.
My dd is now 8 and has a school friend who is a screamer. She never behaves like this with me or her grandparents but the minute her mum appears off she goes. Last week she was talking to dd on the way to swimming and said I will just scream at my mum. I said oh you don’t need to scream at your mum, now you are 8 you are grown up enough to ask mum nicely. Her response was yeah but if I scream she will do it faster!
Tbh it’s not a friendship I encourage and my dd and a few others have now began to comment that it makes them feel embarrassed. Don’t just do this for you but your dd too.
No matter how tired you are, if you are feeling poorly, bad day at work you can never give in again or she knows it’s not consistent. Good luck it’s not easy but you will never regret following it through!

Not only firm Mum, but firm Dad or Nanny or Auntie too - they should back you up. The worst thing that could happen is that she screams for something and you stand firm but Dad weakens and gives in and just gives her what she wants. Makes for a very unhappy child who doesn't know where she stands. United front is what's needed.

She’s 6 and has her own phone? If she’s prone to dysregulation I’m not sure giving her something known to be addictive is a good idea. How did it get to her having her own phone? What does she use it for?

There's no sim in it, it's just my old phone, she just has some games downloaded on it and a few children's apps.

I agree she's training you. Each time you give in it reinforces to her that it works. My niece is the same, her stubbornness to get what she wants is outstanding. Her parents nearly always give in and now she's starting to do it at school. She won't do it for me, I give her the mum look and say no and it's all over, she runs off to play. Her parents must think I'm a magician 🙄. I just don't indulge tantrums.
I too once would've been like the posters saying she has an unmet need or a cry for help but now, no. Some children are extremely strong willed and need stronger boundaries, for their own happiness and wellbeing.

I don’t think any of these except the phone would be battles I’d pick. I would have no problem with more cheese or a drink, snack or toy at bedtime. I think this does all sound a bit too rigid and controlling and she is rebelling. None of it is necessary and I think you're making hard work for yourselves by being so controlling rarher than ‘giving in’. Honestly, life's too short. I think you need to relax a bit. I genuinely mean to try to help not criticise because this sounds so needlessly exhausting for you all.

I mean, I think I agree with your principles. I agree that, before scraping a child’s dinner in the bin and dragging them to their bedroom, we should be trying to work out what the behaviour is about. I agree that children are allowed to have emotions and parents should help guide these emotions, not shut them down. I agree that a bit more cheese could have saved a meltdown.

But equally, the OP asked for help and is in a rut. She has identified herself that boundaries are not enforced. Kids need boundaries to feel secure. And sometimes (often) as parents we have to say no to our children. That’s not getting our kids to toe the line for thrills or for power trips, it’s about understanding that the frontal lobe of a 6 year old isn’t sophisticated enough to be allowed to decide on phone access/bedtime/sweets every day after school. Of course she is allowed to be cross, I too dislike a lot of the comments about her emotions being ‘bad’. But it’s not a power play laying down the rules in the first place. Thats what the OP potentially needs to try.

I think your response is why it’s so easy for gentle parenting to be attacked on here tbh.

Doesn't matter if it has a SIM. She doesn't need games and apps. She's 6. Let her read some books or do some drawing.

I think you need to be consistent. Draw the line and stick to it.

I would have said no to more cheese and after a minute of screaming would have given a warning. Please sit nicely at the table or dinner is finished. I do a countdown with mine, explain what will happen at the end and start counting. So at 3 her dinner would be cleared away if she was still screaming. If she co tinned to scream, I'd remove myself from the situation. She's only screaming because she has an audience.

No pleading or discussion just clear communication. Screaming is not acceptable. She's learnt you are a pushover and screaming gets her attention and what she wants.

I don't do snacks at bedtime, can't believe someone suggested sending her to bed with a biscuit. You tell her this is your last drink, there's no more tonight or just give her a water bottle in her room. No idea why she's got a phone, let alone why she'd be on any screens before bedtime- that's probably half your problem.

I think this is the plan you need

Have you considered if she’s possibly ND?
We have similar and are investigating it

@whatswiththerain you are creating a vile child. I genuinely hope my reply helps you and your dd.

Is it verruca salt I am reminded of?

1. If your dd 'screams and screams' at school with her friends - oven if only when things don't go her way, others will not want to be friends with her. I for one would tell my dc to avoid your dd.

1. When this is the teen version of your current dd, she will be out all hours while you play taxi and pay for her booze and Fags (to keep her from kicking off)

1. She will not cope with school as teachers and most pupils will not like her bad attitude.

She will scream and scream if you make her do homework so she won't do it.

1. When she eventually gets a job she won't last 2 minutes as she won't tolerate being told what to do and will have no respect for others.

1. She will meet a partner who will eventually get sick of her spoilt and demanding ways and won't want to be around her.

Long term she will have a shit life.

You have the power and opportunity to change this and let her beautiful natural side shine through. She may need some help op in all seriousness from a therapist to work on her self confidence as she's never needed this when she screams for what she wants. She may need you to (not obviously) go back to some basics with her like she needs re teaching new ways how to ask/ respond and even cope. A change will be so hard for her but omg please do this for your little girl. Is she ND?

I feel for your older dd dealing with all this.

And a phone?! 6 year old has a phone.

Get some marbles and a jar. She should get a warning then a marble taken out of the jar. For example ‘if you don’t get into bed in the next 5 minutes (set a timer) you will lose a marble’. Link the marbles to a reward at the end of the week/day. 10p for every marble for a treat or 10 minutes of tv etc.

Add extra marbles for good behaviour.
it will be an awful week but it won’t last long if your’re consistent.

There is a perfect sanction, you behave like this then no phone. No screen time.

Another thing we did was after bath we had a box of things like brain puzzles, colouring, jigsaws that she had for 30 mins play this took out screen time before bed which helped massively.
We do story before lights out and I introduced as me, tell me, show me. She is allowed three things so can be one of each or three of one. They can be 3 questions, tell me 3 things about her day or show me 3 things (normally something she has drawn pr written in her notebook)

A 6 year old does not need any kind of phone of her own wiith games on. Bin that for a start!

For all those advocating for screaming ad nauseum...
Neighbours!

@Vavazoom We’ve had the same this summer, Dd just turned 6, how old was your Dd when this was happening? Did you find out any reason why?

I can assure you that my 3 year old understands what good communication looks like. Doesn’t always chose to use it, but knows where he is in the wrong.
I really don’t think you are giving 6 year olds enough credit.

This is not normal behaviour. Either see the Health visitor or get a backbone. Seriously tell her no more cheese if dye continues to scream, chuck the dinner in the bin. You need to get a handle on this now.

Gentle parenting dont work then.

Yeah, any consequences should happen very soon after the poor behaviour. No big gaps in time. It just doesn't make any logical sense to a young child to give a punishment or sanction at the weekend, for example, for something that happened days ago. Even worse in their minds if they've behaved really well in the time between. They'll wonder why they should bother having aperiod of good behaviour. Give the consequence but as soon as possible after the poor behaviour.

I really think you should reconsider this. There is so much evidence around the harms screens, especially small, handheld interactive screens, can cause to children. There is such a mindshift in it being ‘her’ phone as well. As a minimum I’d download the games on your phone and let her play them on a device which isn’t labelled as ‘hers’, that she is expected to return at the end. A 6 year old isn’t going to properly understand ‘too much of a good thing’.

Good point! But I guess if a parent gives in to their child, people will call them soft but some kids will simply escalate if you stand your ground.

I think parents who have kids who don’t do this simply can’t understand what it’s like when you’ve got one that does.

I suspect the OP has already been delivering this sort of parenting that most people here do, but with very different results, and I suspect there is something else going on with her daughter, rather than she’s just a terrible inconsistent and rubbish parent who has created a monster

btw I had to seek behavioural support for my child last year, and the first thing I was told is not to label the child like that, it’s an extremely risky and harmful road to go down

oppositional behaviour can be rooted in anxiety and the child may actually need to feel a sense of control but typical parenting asserts that children need to feel that adults are in control. It can get really complicated and there’s a lot of very counterintuitive advice, but I guess my main takeaway was that simply escalating or being more “boundaried” may well make things worse and there are other ways to look at it.

Op, I recommend also having a look at low demand parenting, lots of ways to deescalate and get what you need done without drama