Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

[whatswiththerain]

We are so exhausted with it. We put her to bed and she (dd6) will demand a drink/snack/toy/phone and scream for hours refusing to go to bed until she gets what she wants.
Of course we try not to give in but she won't stop and there gets a point where we can't take any more and give in so when we try and be stronger the next time she just fights for longer.
It's every night and bedtime is just an example, tonight she had spaghetti bolognaise and wanted cheese on top she got that and ate the cheese first and screamed and refused to eat anymore without more cheese.
If we give a consequence she'll scream and scream about it and as much as we know giving in is the problem, it's become so much of a problem that it takes over the whole evening and nighttime until we are so exhausted with her we just have to give in because we have no energy left and need to go to bed.
I know we've done this ourselves but I don't know to change it now it's done.

Why does a 6 year old even have a phone?!!

@whawhatswiththerain How'd today go? X

Can I firstly say I had this with my youngest son many years ago now, so I really feel for you. He had such a strong willpower, and cd go on for hours. I'm hearing you re sometimes caving in, you are only human after all. I think you are going to have to find the strength from somewhere tho to go zero tolerance with her. On a calm day explain to her yr plan so she knows what to expect, ie no means no in future. Remove yourself from the room when she starts to scream. You will not be her audience. I used to go in my garden and breathe fresh air and put earphones on with calming music. I wd set up a reward chart to reward good behaviour eg a sticker when she eats her spag boll. U r teaching her u will reward good behaviour but not bad. The reward doesn't have to be monetary. It cd b pick a movie, stay up later one night for example. Maybe speak to her school teacher and SENCO, often they can help reinforce things in school too and cd even talk to her about being helpful etc for mummy and daddy. Make sure u and hubby get time out from time to time, a babysitter for the eve, so u can both recharge. Good luck. PS they do grow out of it. My son is quite a chilled adult now and about to head off to Uni. 😊 Xx

I would hazard a guess that this behaviour has been long established. Every time yr daughter screams she gets rewarded, ie she gets what she wants. You need to see who’s in charge here…it isn’t you! Any attempt to correct things will be met by strong resistance, let’s face it she’s used to being in charge. The answer….you simply have to let her scream. She will realise (and this will come to her gradually) you are taking your power back, you are the adult. She may well try a new tactic, be aware she’s not going to go quietly- no pun intended! Step up, be stronger than you have in the past, and most importantly be consistent.

I would say pick your battles and give her as much choice as you can eg what snack do you want before bed etc. Does she get a certain amount of time to play on her phone before bedtime? Maybe give clear boundaries, you get your phone for ten minutes then it goes away for the night and then we have a snack and then it’s bed time and you can take a drink with you. When she does start screaming then empathise with her feelings and don’t get angry or punish her for them just ride it out as best you can. I empathise with both you and your daughter, it must be so tough for both of you

Show her who is in charge. Let her scream and scream and don't give in. Keep doing that until she realizes that you are not going to give in. At the moment, she knows she is in charge! Take back control.

You are bowing to her demands. The more she screams she knows she will get what she wants...she is controlling you. If you don't do something about this now , you will regret it....What will she be like when she gets older, wants to go out and she wants to come home when she wants too, not the time you want her back home...lt starts now, be the parent, she is walking all over you because you let her do it....When she kicks off, talk to her calmly, tell her she can scream until she's sick, but she isn't going to get her own way. You have to give her consequences for her bad behaviour, take away things you know will annoy her...a phone, tablet, tv, any activities...it's A, the antecedent, what are the real causes when she kicks off, B, behaviour, apart from screaming what else dies she do...and C, consequence, she needs to know what's coming if her behaviour is unacceptable....Trust me, you need to sort this out before you run the day....Don't know if you can get a referral to the school nurse from school or GP... l think a behavioural psychologist is someone you need to help you.... l hope you get help, for all your sakes

Omg you’ve just described my MIL.

You know the answer already.
You can't give in - you have to win these battles. When you've been strong and not given in just once or twice she'll learn and it will get easier.
No means no. She needs to learn that and you aren't teaching her it at the moment.

have you had her tested for adhd?
if you don’t mind me asking ?

This is a parenting problem and not a child problem. It is glaringly clear that you are not able to set and enforce boundaries. Sitting up and reasoning with your child at bedtime is ridiculous. She is 6. She is, in her own way, begging for the grown-ups in her life to be grown-ups.

I really like all the answers from @ArabellaScott I wouldnt be able to put in that nicely but agree with her approach.

You may need to tough it out,both you and your husband.
it may take a couple of weeks and then it will settle but often after that there is what is called ‘extinction’
where your daughter tries the old tactics and you’ll feel it’s all been a waste of time,but it hasn’t!do the same as before and within a couple of nights it will settle again.
It may be helpful to talk to her about a new routine so she knows what to expect,even if she kicks off about it.
she must feel very frustrated.
A good calming bedtime routine will help,bath,a couple of bedtime stories and quiet time.

Exactly and the amino acid tryptophan present in milk actually promotes sleep.😴

I would pick my battles and prepare for them. In the example you've given, she asked for more cheese with dinner - this would be an easy 'yes' in my house to keep the peace. No drama and same conclusion. But then very firm with other things so when you do decide to fight the battle, you play it out until the bitter end. Will take a while but she will get it.

That’s terrible advice

Former teacher here. I used to work in a school for children with emotional and behavioural difficulties. The trouble with consequences like not seeing her friend on Saturday is that it's a.) not obviously related to her behaviour and b.) it's too far into the future to be meaningful. At that age children tend to be immersed in the here and now, so warning about a consequence or promising a reward that is several days away is unlikely to help. The average six-year-old doesn't yet have the sense of time and perspective that will allow them to think, "I want to see my friend at the weekend more than I want to eat my body weight in cheese now." You need to make any rewards or consequences more immediate. They should also be linked to her behaviour in a concrete way. "You need to stay in your room until you calm down, because it's not kind to yell at people" is clear. There's an obvious cause and effect there. "If you keep screaming like this, you won't get any sweets next time we go shopping" is more likely to produce a negative reaction, because to a small child that just seems arbitrary.

From what you've written, it sounds as if she has particular difficulty around transitioning from what activity to another (e.g. going to school, leaving school, bedtime routine). Am I understanding that right? If that's a pattern, what might help is for you and her teachers to start using a 'now and next' strategy with her. As you're driving to school, talk with her about the lessons she'll be having that day and then say something like, "And when you come home, you could do some colouring or help me make a fruit salad." If she demands sweets from the shop when you collect her from school, you can then remind her, "We're going home now to make that fruit salad we talked about. Then we're going to..." Basically you don't want to let her demands control your life, but you also don't want everything to be a confrontation, so you need to find ways of diverting her gently but firmly rather than getting into a tug-of-war.

OP, don’t be bullied into doing a drastic cold turkey approach starting right now today, just because a load of posters seem to want you to, as though your life was some kind of reality tv show for their entertainment

How ridiculous. Not to mention, a tad dramatic 🙄

The OP and her DH/DP have created a problem that only they can fix. They can start trying to remedy that whenever they want to but there is no way around it unfortunately. Today, tomorrow, next week, I'm pretty sure there was enough good advice provided to allow the OP to take the approach she feels will work for her 🤷‍♀️

Other posters have just confused the issue by adding irrelevant information that doesn't really bring anything. And the fucking cheese? They're the worst 😂
Not to mention the diagnosis that isn't even a real diagnosis. Who's making it into some kind of reality tv show? Hmmm.

The OP has created a monster and they will need to commit to working together to stop it. Educating themselves to do that in the best way they can but, ultimately, it has to STOP. And cold turkey, with built in strategies and boundary building is fine. We don't need to know the when or how. The OP either does it or continues on to raise a child who will ALWAYS believe they should have what they want and will become more sophisticated in the way they manipulate those around them

Have you read The Explosive Child OP? (sorry if it's been suggested previously, I haven't got time to RTFT).

Some children just don't/can't respond appropriately in these situations. I had a child like this and we'd spend ENTIRE DAYS with me 'setting boundaries' and 'not backing down' which would only end when she sobbed herself to sleep - the following day she'd have forgotten the boundaries/the point of the situation - or at least not conceded to do anything differently and the next time she was defiant the whole thing kicked off again.

I would recommend the above book. It doesn't approach the issues from the perspective of assuming additional needs/neurodiversity but the methodology works regardless.

It also understands and explains why the 'take her to hand' 'she is ruling you like a tiny terrorist' 'be the adult' 'show her who is in charge' type advice just won't work for some kids.

I have two kids. Same parents, same upbringing but require very different parenting styles. Please read this book, sometimes it's not the parent's fault and you just need to find out what will work for her. Good luck.

You have to deal with it now, it will only get harder as she gets older. I suggest you video record her next time. My boys started doing this, I started recording and they stopped almost immediately. After a few months, they started again, so I video'd again, then played it back on the TV to them. Peace again for a few months, then same again, so I played it back when their friends were around the next day. We've had about 8 good months, but they know next time if will be posted on YouTube Snapchat etc.
Kids bad/controlling behaviour can be exhausting beyond explanation, and does cause family breakdown. You can go looking for a diagnosis for ADHD or autism or Asperger's, but in the end a diagnosis of some syndrome or other doesn't move you forward towards more considerate/reasonable behaviour. There had to be consequences, and we found that showing them what they look like to the outside world has worked pretty well, and gave us enough time to regain energy. Don't let her rule your home, she isn't old enough for that amount of responsibility - that's your job. Hours spent explaining why she should stop won't work, she won't understand and when the red mist comes down, she is incapable of processing information or making good decisions, so you need to keep it very simple. Video her. Best of luck.

My child's therapist advised against videoing them because of the extra distress it caused. It's great that it works for you but just a word of caution that it can cause even more distress/trauma/screaming/meltdown.

If she screams again, leave the room for 5 minutes, tell her u r going to do this so she calms down. Maybe it'll shock her to do it. Keep doing it. Another 5 minutes if she starts again. Of u can hold yr nerve it'll take a week. If she doesn't respond to this then seek help for some kind of autism. Been there done that. Mine screams at 14, or wails like a baby til she gets her own way, always has and always will. Boarding school,is a gd option. Bt seriously, trust me, do as above and remove yrselves from the situation, it'll take a week I promise

Was the thinking step for mine. With a giant egg timer - 1 minute for every year of their age https://amzn.eu/d/blpxCjD
I think watching the sand probably helped them calm down … & then the opportunity to talk about what they’d thought about during the six minutes diffused the situation & changed the dynamic of them running the show.

I Agree with the poster who mentioned punishments later in the week or at the weekend being unsuitable. Such as the not seeing your friends on the weekend due to something today. The other issue about punishing with not allowing to see friends or attending pre booked things, is the impact it has on the other person, the friend, the organisers of activities. And then the child can become isolated as the friends move on to new friends. Or they lose interest in the planned activity anyway.

Punishments/consequences - if given - need to be fairly immediate and relevant to the what has happened. I say consequences as not all situations need a negative consequence such as loss of privileges or loss of toys etc. But a natural consequence can mean you’ve run out of time for something that day. But not everything needs a consequence. They might need more of a reflection and discussion once things have calmed down and an agreement made together about how to prevent it happening again. Or just a hug. Or why certain things are non negotiable - where safety is involved. Some children actually need a sleep after such an epic meltdown. I also agree that food shouldn’t be made into a bargaining tool or used as a punishment or reward.

One thing that helped us years ago around screen use was something I had read about PDA - pathological demand avoidance. It’s already been mentioned. But without suggestion this is what the OP is dealing with, the strategies can sometimes help. My DD had issues transitioning from one thing to another. Especially off a screen. If I told her it was finished we got the tantrum. Even with pre warnings and count downs. However we set the tablet to count down and switch off itself and this seemed to help. The tablet said it was finished and not mummy. The same way same timers can sometimes work. Something that’s not mummy has said the time has run out. With clear expectations as to what follows. The choices thing can work well too but also some people with PDA find the whole choices making super stressful and it can trigger more behaviours. But definitely worth a try. My child doesn’t have PDA but some strategies really help.

Behaviour is usually a form of communication and trying to find out what the child is trying to say with their behaviour needs looking into. It could be that they have learned that screaming gets what they want. It could also be something else.

Sometimes you also have to pick your battles which looks like giving in to others. Or teach compromises. I parent both my children slightly differently as they need and respond to different things. One of my children can be bribed offered rewards to motivate them. The other this doesn’t work. They could be offered a million pounds and if they don’t want to do something they wouldn’t. But I can also now pre plan to avoid situations blowing up or to get things done. It takes practise and consistency. Consistency is key to whatever you try.

Make your yes yes and no no. She has learnt kicking off is getting her own way. She’s going to be a nightmare teenager. Nip this in the bud now for your own sanity!

1. Set your stall out, tonight young lady you are going to eat your dinner as I have worked hard to make it and we are lucky to have food, then it’s teeth, story bedtime. If she doesn’t eat it. Offer supper- toast nothing else! Stick to your guns! She won’t starve but she does need to show grace for mealtimes. Model this as parents, ‘thanks mummy for dinner’ says daddy infront of her, que eyebrows to prompt her to do the same/ if not say nothing. Just reinforce by modelling good table manners, you could extend this to no elbows on table etc Always a teaching moment in conflict. If she refuses all food give her time on the step to think about her choice and whether she would like a reward or consequence based upon he decision. Eat dinner or supper or bed with out it no.,.. tomorrow. This gives you and her time to calm and refocus and thinking time is not screaming time, you are breaking the pattern of behaviour here she isn’t used to this new approach. Next rewards and consequences have a good list to refer to depending on what she loves. Whatever she loves take off her, toy, tv afterschool you name it, rewards same whatever she loves give her or get extra off. These are simples rules of social, play nice, do the right thing, make the right choice, things go wel, don’t things don’t go so well. Work and in school/ this is something you could explain to her. Such as if you are good at school likely to have a good day feel happy. Do you notice if you aren’t at your best it’s not so good and you don’t feel so great. One day she will have a job she will have to do exactly what her boss says much like teachers at school and her parents at home, tell her.

Tell her to her eyes when she is shouting in a low firm voice. ‘I’m not listening to you when you are shouting so calm yourself down and take a breath’. I shall listen when you talk nicely to me. Dont get into an argument, take a step back. Let her scream the house down all week, get some cotton wool for your ears. Four days in she will crack because seriously you are the parent and you need to teach her grace at mealtimes and kicking off is no way to get your needs met plus she isn’t going to have many friends screaming for her own way. Tell her this she will learn early on she has to sit down communicate better than she is doing. Also tell her when I say no I mean no, badgering and screaming is not going to work anymore you are old enough to understand this is not good behaviour. You are choosing to not listen to me and that’s not good behaviour.

Also when her behaviour is off, do you scream like this at school? Maybe we shall have to speak to your teacher about this if this carries on? Wait for her reaction. This works a treat on my toddler because he’s an angel at nursery.

Also, if you see a police car in the street make it clear to her people shouting and screaming in riots have had to go in that car to the police station you don’t want to grow up to be like that do you now? You’re a nice girl. Reinforce she is a good person and this isn’t her when she’s screaming. She can use her words to talk.

Some of these are old hat from my nana to us as kids but you know what it worked. And yeah the shouting and screaming rioters are now locked up she wasn’t wrong, disturbing the peace is a thing. She also told us about the naughty boys and girls school - ultimately she made us grateful in making out it could be worse so be grateful for what you do have food that other don’t, nice school and friends to play with. She taught us we should behave listen to our mum and dad, teachers, police, drs, elderly and do as parents say because they want to help and our parents want us to be happy but it would make our parents proud of us too. A reinforcing grandparents can really help back you both up too!

Use this conflict to communicate, educate, realign her own way to gratefulness for small things. She may actually turn out to be great person with a strong will to make things better in this world for others with that determination (currently screaming) but she needs you to educate her socially and emotionally. She needs to know how to communicate her needs not wants and recognise sometimes it has to be no and that the same for lots of other children too.
It’s hard I have a strong willed three year old but my ‘no’ means ‘no’ and he knows when the eyebrows come out on mummy he stops, he knows his behaviour isn’t right. You will get there make your no’s no.
You wouldn’t tolerate a screaming demanding adult in your home making your life hell where they have worn you down, don’t feel emotionally guilt tripped by a child. Do the hard work now whilst she’s young so she will know when’s she older. It will be worth it . Big hugs stand firm mama. Also you and dad united front no wriggle room and gentle reinforcement from grandparents may help 👍