Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

[whatswiththerain]

We are so exhausted with it. We put her to bed and she (dd6) will demand a drink/snack/toy/phone and scream for hours refusing to go to bed until she gets what she wants.
Of course we try not to give in but she won't stop and there gets a point where we can't take any more and give in so when we try and be stronger the next time she just fights for longer.
It's every night and bedtime is just an example, tonight she had spaghetti bolognaise and wanted cheese on top she got that and ate the cheese first and screamed and refused to eat anymore without more cheese.
If we give a consequence she'll scream and scream about it and as much as we know giving in is the problem, it's become so much of a problem that it takes over the whole evening and nighttime until we are so exhausted with her we just have to give in because we have no energy left and need to go to bed.
I know we've done this ourselves but I don't know to change it now it's done.

It reminds me of the little girl in Just William, threatening him when it looked like she wasn't going to get her way, 'and I'll scweam and scweam and scwean until I'm sick - and I can!'

Let the dear child scream. Wanting isn't the same as getting.

You know what to do, you just don't want to!

@Changeiscomingthisyear

eh?

what do you mean by supper? She doesn’t need another meal after her evening meal.

• Rule out ND (contact peadiatrician)

Yeah, just like that!😄😄😄

OP, I think pick your battles and this too will pass.

DD1 was a delight at school but was obviously holding herself back at school and took it out on us at home, particularly when she was 5 or 6 years old.

I wouldn't pick a fight over extra cheese and things like that, but if it was running into the road then hell yes. It took a lot of praise when she was good (which was most of the time) and giving her some control and lots of time outs to calm down. Then a big cuddle.

DD2 was generally laid back but also totally stubborn if she really did not want to do something.

They are 19 and 15 and both delightful now. DD1 still throws a big strop about things from time to time but it's not necessarily a bad thing - the emotion is released and a few minutes later she's fine.

Supper can mean a bit of toast and a warm drink. Nothing wrong with that at bedtime.

She screams because you taught that is what to do to get her own way. Now you need to unteach her by telling her during a calm time that screaming is for toddlers and that if she screams at you from now on she won't get what she is asking for. When she starts screaming saying no and i told you no more screaming, only say it one once then do not engage with her until she stops, even if it takes 2 hours. And do that every single time.

I have young adult kids now, one of whom tried this for about a month (they were three or four I think) because that's how long it took for them to realise it wasn't going to work. We would just carry on doing whatever we were doing, talking, eating, etc and ignore it. One time they vomited from screaming so hard, which we quietly cleaned up. This took some behind the scenes planning together, an agreement not to rise to it. One tantrum in a restaurant, their Dad got up, picked them up and walked them out to the car where they stayed while the other child finished their dinner with a big ice cream afterwards. Eventually it stopped. You don't tell them what you expect, you show them. You are in charge, not the kid. Start giving them control now and the teenage years will be hell on toast.

@rainfallpurevividcat

why is that needed though? Especially after a substantial meal like spag bol

Someone once told me that at least 85% of tantrums are caused by tiredness or hunger.

I'd work on the basis of one or both of those being the cause of the screaming - snack immediately after school so not hangry by dinner, and as pp have said pick your battles on the things you say no to (this early in the school term, personally I wouldn't make just cheese for dinner one of them).

For the things you do say no to, absolutely do not cave. In our house it's no screens after dinner on school nights. Kids hate it, but that's the rule no matter how much they kick off.

Ear plugs. Or actually the suggestion of headphones is better that way you can watch TV.

Depends on the child, but generally, dinner time could be several hours before bedtime, their stomachs and portions are small and metabolisms fast.

Bedtime is about feeling warm, loved and comfortable and dozy and if part of that is a bit of toast and milk then great. Life is not just about the bare minimum that you need to survive but feeling happy and comfortable.

If you are trying to make a snidey point about childhood obesity or are a competitive undereater, then come out with it, as otherwise I can't see why you would have a problem with the concept of supper.

I think it became an argument because she was only eating the cheese off the top, and not touching the spag bol. Then she asked for more cheese, and skimmed that off the top too. She may as well have sat down to a meal of grated cheese. But the parents want her to eat better meals.

All you can do is make her safe, then ignore her. Follow it up with some "natural consequences". For example, when my 3yo woke me up one night, carrying on and demanding apple juice of all things, the next day I was unfortunately "too tired to take him to soft play". Obviously he didn't get apple juice either.

All children need a snack before bed. A slice of toast & warm milk is a good idea.

The way to deal with that is not to make a big fuss - it is annoying when they don't eat lovingly prepared meals, but IMO the less fuss is made about it the sooner the fussy phase will pass.

I would ask her to eat five mouthfuls then she can have more cheese.

I would give a snack if asked.

I actually used to give a chunk of cheese..... 😁

I researched at the time and came up with this as being ok for teeth after they'd been brushed.

Yes, but by the sounds of this child, any bargaining will be met with screaming until she wins. She would simply not eat those five bites, and scream for the cheese. She's learnt that when you scream, you get what you want, with no conditions attached.

On the contrary, it sounds from the OP's posts that no negotiation has been attempted and it is all black and white, yes or no.

That's not immediate enough

So what boundaries do you enforce? Do you ever say no to her? If she gets her own way all the time, you've created a monster and it'll only get worse.

Time for some tough love.

I think there's a lot going on. Give her a snack immediately after school. It's sounds like she's exhausted and over wrought and knows how to push your buttons. If she doesn't eat dinner take it away. Explain that no means no and no amount of screaming will change your mind. She can have her friend over when her behaviour improves. Don't force her to eat.

Does she have enough opportunities to make her own choices / be independent?

What time is she actually falling asleep if she's screaming for hours? Why not have snack, screen time, toys etc before bed and move bedtime back, so by the time its bedtime she's done all her playing and is more tired?

Spot on…why would she stop screaming as she knows you will give in because of it?

it’s a battle of wills now

She's screaming very simply because it gets her what she wants.... sometimes..... but other times she gets bollocked for it or gets told that abritrary things several days in the future won't be happening. She's screaming because she wants her own way but also you're making her more stressed, more angry and less trusting of you by not being consistent and firm.

You need to take zero shit, give her zero wiggle room and make the consequences direct. If she's screaming get some earplugs. 'That's fine darling scream if you need to I realise this is very frustrating for you but its bedtime now so you're not leaving this room. If there's a pattern eg she's always 'hungry' then have a firm but fair and proactive approach to this. Acknowledge that it's a regular issue and reach a fair conclusion. 'I've noticed you're always hungry whilst we're trying to get to bed. I really don't want you to be hungry and I feel very sad that you're hungry but the problem is that once it's bedtime and teeth are brushed we can't be eating as your teeth are nice and clean and it's time to be getting to sleep. How about we agree that I warn you a few minutes before bedtime that it's your last chance to eat. You can have cereal/milk/fruit but you have to eat what you want before bedtime (get an egg timer if needed) and there will be water only after this' There isn't a lot you can/should do to punish a kid for this behaviour as such but you can refuse to be strung along by it and you can try and help her make connections at times when she's more regulated. Don't bother making idle threats whilst she's upset and screaming because it just won't register or will make her more upset. Do it when she's calmed down. For example the next day 'It's a shame. I was thinking of taking you to the park today but I'm just too tired after you were screaming for so long last night. Maybe if we have a better night tonight we can go tomorrow'

She mostly needs boundaries by the sounds of it. It's hard when you have such a stubborn and evasive child (believe me I know!) But just stay calm but firm and she will get the message