Dd screams for hours if she doesn't get her own way

[whatswiththerain]

We are so exhausted with it. We put her to bed and she (dd6) will demand a drink/snack/toy/phone and scream for hours refusing to go to bed until she gets what she wants.
Of course we try not to give in but she won't stop and there gets a point where we can't take any more and give in so when we try and be stronger the next time she just fights for longer.
It's every night and bedtime is just an example, tonight she had spaghetti bolognaise and wanted cheese on top she got that and ate the cheese first and screamed and refused to eat anymore without more cheese.
If we give a consequence she'll scream and scream about it and as much as we know giving in is the problem, it's become so much of a problem that it takes over the whole evening and nighttime until we are so exhausted with her we just have to give in because we have no energy left and need to go to bed.
I know we've done this ourselves but I don't know to change it now it's done.

@SummerFeverVenice

Some parents think it is fine to run around at bedtime bringing their child everything they ask for, even if it is a 6 year old asking to play on their phone. That's your style of parenting. It certainly isn't mine.

I prefer the kind of parenting that says bedtime and means bedtime. A drink of water, cuddles, sharing a story and lights out. A solid routine that makes my child feel secure because he knows what is happening and knows his mum and dad are here with him sharing this calm moment. Not a child who is lost in chaos because mum and dad are not being parents, not keeping order for them, are running about like headless chickens whenever they are asked for any random demand. That's fun for a child to begin with as they boss mum and dad about, but it doesn't last long. It's confusing when the adults don't act like adults.

I also don’t see any issue with giving a child a quiet way to play if they are an early riser? We all have different biological clocks. What is wrong with some parts of parenting being less difficult? And how could a child playing quietly at 4am possibly create a whole world of problems? (Seems a bit paranoid).

I have no issue whatsoever with making parenting easier- which is why I don't let my child act like a brat as the OP has done. It's easier for everyone in the long run to raise a child who is not screaming for hours over phones and bedtime or more and more cheese on their dinner. Taking the easy way in the moment creates the hard way for a lifetime. I know what I'd rather do.

I have a 3 year old who sometimes wakes at 6 and knows he can read his books and listen to his Yoto player until 7. I have no problem with a child quietly playing in their bedroom until the rest of the house is up for the day, I was raised the same way. Putting that in the same category as giving a 2 year old an iPad at 4am until half past 6 is some seriously lax parenting. What a low bar. That child is waking at 4am still now because their brain is wired for the dopamine hit of endless hours scrolling kids YouTube alone.

You're clutching at straws to call anyone paranoid or tyrannical who can use their common sense to see why the OP's parenting has caused this brattish behaviour. She can fix it though, thankfully, as long as she doesn't listen to advice like yours on this thread.

👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

You need to literally walk away from screaming. My DD did it for a year, but age 3 til age 4. I thought it would never end, tried everything, eventually just ignored it - no reaction whatsoever and she stopped. She is 16 now and tells me that having a good scream is really cathartic, but only if she's on a fairground ride.

My daughter is very similar, very rigid and triggered massively by disappointment. We've had a lot of help through school and assessment for ND. Happy to chat if you want to private message me.

Gosh, this can be so hard and draining. One of my Darlings is a picky eater, which can further complicate things. She’s also started to imitate the behaviours of our beloved (but wild!) neighbour’s kids. Keep putting your foot down. It can feel like forever before changes occur, but trust me, they will. You’ve just gotta stick to your guns. I say that knowing that it is indeed exhausting. Best of luck, and solidarity! X

Summer fever. It's not about cheese. It's about how she asks for cheese. Screaming for more and refusing to ear her meal until she gets some = no cheese. The same applies to any food the daughter demands in this way.

@Yourethebeerthief
”Not a child who is lost in chaos because mum and dad are not being parents, not keeping order for them, are running about like headless chickens whenever they are asked for any random demand. That's fun for a child to begin with as they boss mum and dad about, but it doesn't last long. It's confusing when the adults don't act like adults.”

^This is clutching at straws especially when you literally wrote that you do allow your child a drink of water at bedtime, unlike the OP. So were you being a headless chicken by running to fulfill that random demand?

And while your early waking child can listen to a Yoto player, a child using an iPad to read or listen to is “seriously lax parenting”? The only difference between the two is one is audio only and the other is audio and visual. They play the same things…like podcasts. In fact there is a Yoto app for the iPad!! 😂

If you read the updates, she asked for cheese without screaming. The screaming started after the OP had said no, no and no several times.

The dynamic isn’t that the child starts with screaming. The child starts by asking and after being repeatedly told no for imho minor reasonable requests, her behaviour escalates to screaming.

Taking the easy way in the moment creates the hard way for a lifetime.

Saying no all the time is as easy as saying yes all the time and both cause the screaming and angry behaviours we are seeing in the DD.

The hard part is actually taking the time to judge when to say no and when to say yes. The DD’s behaviour is being caused by too many nos, it’s not being caused by too many yeses.

That’s what you have missed in all this.

@Yourethebeerthief

So perhaps you can be less judgey about iPads. For all you know their child is doing the exact same thing as your child.

@SummerFeverVenice

This is clutching at straws especially when you literally wrote that you do allow your child a drink of water at bedtime, unlike the OP. So were you being a headless chicken by running to fulfill that random demand?

My child has a bottle of water by their bed every night. There is no running around. We read 2 or 3 stories while we have a cuddle and they go to bed. My child doesn't demand anything more and scream for hours on end. He goes to bed. This is because he knows what he can and can't have. He has water and a few stories with mum or dad. His life isn't in chaos where he thinks he can ask for any random nonsense at bedtime. The OP has a child on her hands who pisses around for time. Water, snacks, phones, on and on. She created that herself. If she had firm boundaries of water and a book at bedtime and nothing else, her child wouldn't think she can scream for anything she wants.

And while your early waking child can listen to a Yoto player, a child using an iPad to read or listen to is “seriously lax parenting”? The only difference between the two is one is audio only and the other is audio and visual. They play the same things…like podcasts. In fact there is a Yoto app for the iPad!! 😂

You can 😂 all you like. It's plain for most to see that there is an almighty chasm of a difference between a child listening to a screen free audiobook for an hour in the morning and being glued to an iPad for over 2 hours. They do not play the same things. The child watches kids YouTube and plays games. If you are happy letting your child do that, I understand why you think the OP's only problem is not giving in more to her child's demands. I personally don't let my son have a tablet at all, let alone sit by himself watching a screen for hours. Because of this I do not have an early waking child. On the odd occasion he does wake early, he knows he is quiet in his room until everyone else gets up. My friend on the other hand has created an early waking child by giving them an iPad at 4am since the age of two.

They are not, as I already stated.

They have free rein over any games or kids YouTube.

I am judgey about iPads for young children and have no problem saying so.

A parent who has put in the hard work will be able to say no and yes when they judge it without their child screaming for hours on end.

I don't say no to my child all the time, in fact he hears yes far more than he hears no because he is well behaved and I don't need to say no to him about most things. The point is he knows that when I say no it means no. End of discussion. The OP's daughter does not because she has been told yes too often and now knows that screaming gets what she wants.

It is about cheese. Asking for cheese is a very minor and reasonable request.

What would I do as an adult if I wanted more cheese on my pasta? I'd go and get myself some. Cheese and pasta is delicious. You can see how many adults agree that they'd give more cheese on this thread. If it doesn't make sense to an adult, it is definitely not going to make sense to a six year old.

Denying reasonable requests can cause children to become very angry, because they need the world to feel just.

Yes, there's an issue with screaming for cheese and it's completely unacceptable. And no, of course you can't give in to that kind of behaviour. But you need to pick your battles, particularly where food is concerned. If you make a child feel like they have no autonomy and that they're subject to completely arbitrary rules, it's not surprising that they become emotional about it.

I suspect this child feels like she's not being listened to. And what's the obvious solution to no one listening to you, when you're six? Make your request louder. It's easy to follow her logic.

Then she's being told she's being punished further with something that again makes no sense. Days into the future, which is a long time into the future for a young mind, she's not allowed her friends over. Again, it makes no sense, she becomes angry, she feels like she's out of control of her life, she can't regulate her emotions at that age, she knows eventually someone will listen if she shouts long enough, and here we are.

She doesn't sound like a little madam. She sounds like she's trying to navigate life's difficulties the best way she knows how.

And all this over 30 pence of cheese.

Thus. Set aside some time when you can focus. Consider getting additional help if needed, particularly if you have other children etc. offer choices, explain consequences and follow through on actions. Going to bed hungry once wont kill her but she will remember

Actually though also this, you need to consider the reasonableness of what your doing and give her opportunity to have autonomy and make choices too

I suspect there needs to be consequences at first scream. Explain first.
”You are getting too big to scream like a baby. If you scream, we will decide that you are too tired to eat dinner and put you in bed.” - and follow through.

This is neglectful / abusive behavior. Not good.

Has she been difficult since birth? If so, I wouldn’t rule out ND. DD (now 17) was diificult from 1 week old, very high needs. If you didn’t get her routine absolutely perfect (which you never would as they can’t communicate), she’d scream and scream - initially put down to colic. This morphed into huge tantrums by 1 and got worse - hours of screaming and meltdowns if the answer to something was No or Not now but in xxx mins etc. . We didn’t give in, she had clear boundaries, counting to 3 then following through etc but it made no difference. Well behaved at school,(but distracted/not focussed) which put me off going to the GP because I was convinced it had to be me my parenting as not shown at school. Long story short, she was eventually diagnosed with ADHD (and I think undiagnosed traits of ASD). She was masking at school and so all bubbled up and exploded at home.

HOWEVER previous posters are 100 per cent right, before you can consider ND, you need to completely reset the parent/daughter relationship. And I’m shocked she has a phone at 6: you really don’t want to go down that route until secondary school age. You and DP need to sit down with her jointly for a big family chat and make it clear that her behaviour is totally unacceptable and needs to stop right now, that there will be big changes and lay out the rules and boundaries and you MUST stick to them always and you MUST both parent in the same way. When she’s misbehaving state your position and what she needs to do and then count to 3 and then there’s a consequences. If she’s screaming you ignore. Noise cancelling headphones are a great idea (wish I’d thought of that!) as the screaming really gets to you and I understand why after x hours you feel you can’t take anymore but it’s vital you follow through. My Dd HATED the ignoring, she’d try and manipulate me with why are you ignoring me, you’re my parent,parents don’t ignore their children etc and I’d simply reiterate every so often (ignoring the rest of the time) that I have nothing different to say/there is nothing more to discuss.

I think you’ll need to give it 6 months before you consider ND as it will take some time to reset the boundaries and undo the giving in. But if it doesn’t improve, seek help, speak to the school who may be able to help with a referral or if not GP . I left it way too late, convinced it was me.

Re your eldest daughter, that is tough if they share a room. You need to give her a safe space she can go to (may need to be your room or one of you take her out for a walk for a break and make sure you have 1-1 time with her so she can talk to you about how this is affecting her and also I assume gets little attention as it’s all focussed on dd2. Explain to her what you’re doing and why and acknowledge that you know it’s tough on her but it will be better in the long run.

Good luck and be strong!

How difficult is this situ. I'd probably try a reversal. Say no and you both start screaming and crying. It might be enough to stop her starting. If it is, keep it up for a little while, then stop and see if she will talk.
An alternative might be to ask her why she wants whatever it is she wants. She can then tell you, but get a real answer not a because I eant it answer. You can consider her ask properly then.

I honestly don't know why you said no to cheese on spagetti, a drink or book at bedtime btw. So I'd suggest not saying no to everything.

Def no phone but some things aren't a no are they?

Rule out ND (contact peadiatrician

some posters... 🙄 we are on the waiting list for an assessment - it's about 6 years long!!

It’s better to teach her good behaviour is rewarded. I would buy some very cheap small gifts and put them in a cloth bag. If she manes it through dinner without screaming she can put her hand into the bag and choose one. Same with bedtime (but pick in morning). I did this with potty training twins and worked well

With the cheese thing...i agree it is delicious however, it is expensive and not that healthy to have piles of it so perhaps offer one more helping and emphasise that it is only one more helping because it is expensive etc then no more. Perhaps she could help herself.

That way she has a bit of autonomy but learns that food has to be shared.

Sounds very draining op.

The water isn't a random demand, it's part of the routine along with the story etc. It's the same every day. It's what she's allowed - the same thing, every day. If she demanded a slab of cake the answer would be no. The parent here isn't "running around" at all; she'd providing the same stuff at the same time, calmly and reliably, every bedtime. The parent has decided what the routine will be and is sticking to it.

Mine did the same and screamed as a form of masking. Later found out she had ADHD. One thing that I would recommend is that you ask her to name her emotion rather than scream and that you will not respond unless she talks. Sorry ur going thru this it’s exhausting.