solo day out - unwanted company

[FrescoeDay]

I actually know I'm not being unreasonable but my reaction may be out of proportion and I need help wording my response for my desired outcome - solitude.

I'm on a sort of retreat in Italy. Tomorrow I arranged to go on a day trip away from the base to look at some art. I'd arranged for the car to the station, bought my train ticket and was looking forward to it. I told my next door room mate who told someone else who over dinner tonight said he was coming along 'if I didn't mind.' Of course I don't mind him going to the town and looking at the art. If he is here a week it is his opportunity. Of course I don't mind if he catches the same train - although, honestly, I don't want to chat and be friendly and 'on' for an hour plus on the train there (and back?!) Why should I?

I do not want to spend 6 hours going around museums galleries, churches, having lunch, with a stranger. I prefer to look at art alone at my own pace and have my own responses. But over dinner I could hardly say that. The prick (pardon me) cornered me. I am so angry I'm finding it hard to relax. This may be disproportionate. The thing is I am quite able to be cold and freeze people if I feel like it - but I don't want to introduce awkwardness let alone animosity. I am meeting the driver of the retreat tomorrow morning and this other unwanted guest. I don't want to stop him if this is his one chance to go to the town. But I refuse to have my day stolen from me because I end up being polite to this man. I need a healthy middle ground. I am 46. I can't believe I am still being imposed on like this. I don't want to snap but I may.

Thanks for hearing me out. Perspective needed. This has touched a nerve you can tell. I would just never ever do this.

Well done for asserting yourself, but it’s a shame you’ve had to put it off a day. I hope he has actually gone today/wont try to jump in with you tomorrow. Though if he does I’d honestly tell him to fuck off and give you the peace you’ve paid for being part of the retreat! I’d not be surprised if there will be a few reported complaints about him if he carries on this way, I agree with a PP who believes he’s using it as an opportunity to pick up women (possibly he believes to be vulnerable judging by the word ‘retreat’).

Well done OP but he didn’t go down without a fight did he. Unbelievable x

There is a book the Gift of Fear - about how we always know deep down when a situation is not just 'us being a people pleaser' - its because we absolutely know someone is behaving in a. way we don't like

all the people here blaming the OP - should be more respectful when a woman has an unpleasant instinct about a situation

the fact this ended with him saying 'what are WE going to see'' - absolutely proves this point

A good tactic when we are caught off guard is to do the non-commital "errmm I will need think about that...." - just change the pace. But its not easy.

I am getting better at this, but its definitely not easy

We are talking about adults.

'No, I want to enjoy my own company but you're welcome to share the car to the train station so that you can do your own thing.'

All this agreeing to do something and then seething about it behind his back is daft!

People have got confused with being assertive and being rude. Stating your preferences is not being rude.

UANBU for wanting peace. UABU in your reaction.

I am an introvert. I regularly let people know, “I am an introvert and I would like to have some alone time. You’re lovely, but I don’t want to talk right now. Have a good train journey. I am going to sit by myself.”

Just use your words to politely inform him of your plans. I don’t think it’s imposing on you to ask to come along, it’s wrong of you not to politely say what you want to do (ie, say “no” to his request). He may think you’d be lonely and it’d be nice to have company. Just say what you want. It’s not an issue!

Well done! Excellent outcome.

He'll be sweaty and pathetic today and you can have a lovely day out by yourself tomorrow instead.

Goodness how annoying. I think you did the right thing if it makes no difference which day you go. It would have spoilt the day thinking he would have probably popped up at some point. It was the persistence.

If it happens again, fine to say yes at the table if you don't wish to embarrass the other person, but better to clarify your plans privately straight afterwards.

I am glad you are able to resolve this OP, well done for putting him in his place. He was not acting in good faith at all in being 'friendly' - not Hannibal Lector, just an all too familiar type of presumptuous, somewhat sleazy man who feels entitled to a woman's time, attention and interest regardless of her wishes. Your story about him proposing to text another woman in the middle of the night further illustrates this.

I agree that he probably chose to go on this retreat to find a woman - any woman - as in his own mind women who choose this kind of holiday are likely to be sad and lonely and desperate for male attention. He tried to impose on and manipulate you knowing that (as commented above) women are socialised to smooth things over and not hurt feelings. And he failed. Good.

I would suggest keeping any future plans close to your chest for the remainder of your stay.

@Livingtothefull 100% agree. He's a 'type' we've all come across.

I would do this, but I'd do it over breakfast before you even get into the car. Tell him that you were really looking forward to a day alone, and that once you both get to the train station you are going to find your own seat on the train and chill out and do your own thing in town. Tell him that you'll see him at the end of the day to share the lift back to your accommodation. That way if he is expecting you to accompany him he knows before he gets into the car that is not going to happen and can rethink his plans if necessary.

He may think you’d be lonely and it’d be nice to have company. Just say what you want. It’s not an issue!

The issue is (and there have been threads about this on MN before), is that some men do not believe in women truly wanting to be left alone. They will impose themselves in their space even if a woman has been as clear as possible in ‘no, I’m happy sitting/dining/taking a trip alone’. If the op had gone today, I’d bet my last penny he would have found a way to tag along or ‘bump into her’ along the way.

Anyway, this morning I thought, OK, he may think we're just sharing a car; if he doesn't I can quickly disabuse him. I said good morning, he said, 'So have you decided what we are going to see?' Me: Oh, no, this is a solo day out for me. I don't enjoy looking at art with other people. I may only go to a couple of places anyway, it's so hot.' Him: 'Well let's chose a couple that we'll each see and we can talk about them over lunch.' Me: No, as I say, I want to spend today alone. Him, shrug. We get in the car, drive to the station. The driver says What time am I picking you up? Me: Well, it may be separately. (We both have his number). Him: well maybe we could swap numbers so we can coordinate a time to get the train back. Me: Oh that sounds like a faff, I won't enjoy being on the clock. Why don't you go today and I'll go tomorrow. This heat looks too much for me already.

There we are. You had him pegged from the start. All the posters chiding you for over-reacting, lecturing about different ask/guess styles, suggesting he meant no harm, just wanted to share the car, and was socially awkward (I'm supposed no-one asked if it might be dementia)... Trust your gut. It's good you got angry, as that is what tells us our boundaries are being crossed in some way, and that's what gave you clarity. It's not always elegant, speaking up in these instances, and we don't always nip things in the bud soon enough, but you sound like you've ultimately handled it well.

Well done, best solution! Nice side-step there. It shows that your suspicions weren't wrong, he absolutely DID have designs on your day and time and attention! Cheeky, entitled bastard...

I can totally understand that knee-jerk response to be nice, we are socialised to it, that's how the buggers do it. I can understand your inner fury too and hope you can let it go now - or even use it as a lesson of the retreat! Something to think about going forward.

Getting older, I think of my boundaries as like a strong, imposing castle: if you build a sturdy wall, you don't have to waste time and energy constantly patrolling it against attacks.

I hope your retreat brings you peace, contemplation and growth. But he was a dick... 😏

(And that other woman rather threw you under the bus, didn't she? Whether to get rid of him from herself, or out of her own need to 'be nice'...).

This.

Posted without reading the updates, sorry.
Uggh he sounds horrible. I hate it when men pester like that and don’t take the hint. Well done for being firm Op.

I read a quote a while ago - I thought it was Virginia Woolf but can't find it online - but it's something like:

'There is nothing a woman can be doing that can not be interrupted.'

Yes, all that... 😡

OP has updated

cross posts!

Well he was a dick wasn't he! You were completely correct in your initial gut feeling about him. Congrats on standing up for yourself to him, and don't be too harsh on yourself before, he caught you by surprise on purpose, knowing full well in public that you may acquiesce on his plans for your day.

Hope you enjoy the retreat and the day tomorrow.

It’s an issue when it becomes an issue, not before. And any man or woman won’t know that you want to be left alone if you don’t tell them. From OP’s last post it is clear that guy was trying to impose his company on her, from his failure to listen and respect her wishes, but she waited until the morning of the outing to let him know that (as far as he is concerned) her plans had changed and she wanted to go alone. So I have some sympathy for his POV.

Perhaps the real issue is women not feeling like they can express their desires for fear of being impolite, in the first place.

I don't think you over reacted at all, I think you read his vibe and intent accurately!

Well done OP. Cannot believe the entitlement of some men assuming a day would be improved by their company.

What a prick. I'm annoyed for you, OP. This is exactly the kind of shit I used to put up with when I was younger.

He probably thinks he's doing the poor single woman a favour by bestowing his presence on her! And no doubt MANSPLAINING art to you.

Can't possibly think that a woman is perfectly fine on her own, for a day, a month or a lifetime!

Fuck him off!

Perhaps the real issue is women not feeling like they can express their desires for fear of being impolite, in the first place.

OP's update makes it very clear men like him can't take no for answer anyway, need it repeating firmly numerous times and are still baffled by it, so I don't think the real issue here lies with women.