solo day out - unwanted company

[FrescoeDay]

I actually know I'm not being unreasonable but my reaction may be out of proportion and I need help wording my response for my desired outcome - solitude.

I'm on a sort of retreat in Italy. Tomorrow I arranged to go on a day trip away from the base to look at some art. I'd arranged for the car to the station, bought my train ticket and was looking forward to it. I told my next door room mate who told someone else who over dinner tonight said he was coming along 'if I didn't mind.' Of course I don't mind him going to the town and looking at the art. If he is here a week it is his opportunity. Of course I don't mind if he catches the same train - although, honestly, I don't want to chat and be friendly and 'on' for an hour plus on the train there (and back?!) Why should I?

I do not want to spend 6 hours going around museums galleries, churches, having lunch, with a stranger. I prefer to look at art alone at my own pace and have my own responses. But over dinner I could hardly say that. The prick (pardon me) cornered me. I am so angry I'm finding it hard to relax. This may be disproportionate. The thing is I am quite able to be cold and freeze people if I feel like it - but I don't want to introduce awkwardness let alone animosity. I am meeting the driver of the retreat tomorrow morning and this other unwanted guest. I don't want to stop him if this is his one chance to go to the town. But I refuse to have my day stolen from me because I end up being polite to this man. I need a healthy middle ground. I am 46. I can't believe I am still being imposed on like this. I don't want to snap but I may.

Thanks for hearing me out. Perspective needed. This has touched a nerve you can tell. I would just never ever do this.

Oh shut up, I was only saying what I'd do. I'm sorry but I have a thing called a life and don't have time or inclination to read every post. Just ignore my post if you don't like it.

But that wouldn't have worked so it's a pointless post.

You would have more time for your Busy and Important Life if you hadn't posted at all.

'Nothing occurring... to realise her apprehensions, she endeavoured to fix her attention more closely on her book, in which by degrees she became so much interested, that she had read on through several chapters without heed of time or place, when she was terrified by suddenly hearing her name pronounced by a man’s voice close at her ear.
The book fell from her hand. Lounging on an ottoman close beside her, was Sir Mulberry Hawk, evidently the worse—if a man be a ruffian at heart, he is never the better—for wine.
‘What a delightful studiousness!’ said this accomplished gentleman. ‘Was it real, now, or only to display the eyelashes?’
Kate, looking anxiously towards the door, made no reply.
‘I have looked at ‘em for five minutes,’ said Sir Mulberry. ‘Upon my soul, they’re perfect. Why did I speak, and destroy such a pretty little picture?’
‘Do me the favour to be silent now, sir,’ replied Kate.
‘No, don’t,’ said Sir Mulberry, folding his crushed hat to lay his elbow on, and bringing himself still closer to the young lady; ‘upon my life, you oughtn’t to. Such a devoted slave of yours, Miss Nickleby—it’s an infernal thing to treat him so harshly, upon my soul it is.’
‘I wish you to understand, sir,’ said Kate, trembling in spite of herself, but speaking with great indignation, ‘that your behaviour offends and disgusts me. If you have a spark of gentlemanly feeling remaining, you will leave me.’
‘Now why,’ said Sir Mulberry, ‘why will you keep up this appearance of excessive rigour, my sweet creature? Now, be more natural—my dear Miss Nickleby, be more natural—do.’
Kate hastily rose; but as she rose, Sir Mulberry caught her dress, and forcibly detained her.
‘Let me go, sir,’ she cried, her heart swelling with anger. ‘Do you hear? Instantly—this moment.’
‘Sit down, sit down,’ said Sir Mulberry; ‘I want to talk to you.’
‘Unhand me, sir, this instant,’ cried Kate.
‘Not for the world,’ rejoined Sir Mulberry. Thus speaking, he leaned over, as if to replace her in her chair; but the young lady, making a violent effort to disengage herself, he lost his balance, and measured his length upon the ground.'

Hope you have the best time tomorrow @FrescoeDay

i had this a few years back, in a library of all places. Sitting reading as you do and he came up asking what I was doing.

reading of course I said but going duh it’s a library in my head.
oh any good and went to grab said book
I gripped the book tighter as I felt uneasy at this stage
i looked at him and said no I’m reading it
he got aggressive right away with I only wanted a look bitch what’s your problem
I retorted I didnt ask for your company I wanted to read in quiet in the library alone.
he stalks of swearing and muttering and does the same to another woman and I got up and told the librarian what he was doing.

she no nonsense told him to cut it out this was not a pick up joint and if he didn’t she’d call the police. he swore at her so she lifted the phone he left.

I waited an extra hour before I left in case he was outside ( he wasn’t) but I couldn’t relax reading after that.

If you just read the OP's updates Not every post) it would save you wasting your time rather than clogging up threads with pointless comments

But you carry on

Yes I will. You carry on being bossy because it's obviously your favourite hobby.

You call someone rude with a name like that?

You know what, I think it's fine if one person asks another if they might tag along to something. That's how delightfully unexpected things happen. But the asker has to be prepared to receive a polite no as a response.

And for those who feel imposed upon... don't be frightened to say no. Maybe even rehearse it. There's lots of things I could/should go to, or have people coming with me to, that I prepare myself to say no to.

' well that's a lovely idea, but I'll be going by myself all the same. I've come here for some alone time which I don't get in real life. Perhaps I'll see you at breakfast the next morning'.

Or no, please don't think me rude, but I was really looking forward to going to xyz place by myself. I hope you have a great day all the same.

Or thanks for the offer of a drink, I'll politely decline though, I'm quite happy here reading my book my myself.

Or no, I'm quite happy in the library here by myself, I do really want to have some alone time, so could you leave me to it please?

I'd hope I can be the right mix of not too apologetic / polite / clear / not leaving room for discussion?

You also have to trust your immediate instinct and dive straight in with the polite no. It takes practice!

Well done for standing your ground OP. Have a safe trip home.

I agree that it gets easier with practice to be assertive about saying no. However I think it is important that women trust their gut feeling...they may choose to be open to connecting with someone when it feels right.

It can also be easiest to get the polite 'no' in early on. The one problem is that some men react really badly to being told 'no' by a woman. Their entitled rage can be startling and shocking, to the extent that women can feel (and often are) vulnerable to the consequences.

Another anecdote: I was walking down the street on my way home. Eyes straight ahead, walking fast, not engaging with anyone.

Random man sidles up to me in the street while I am walking fast. (sidling is a thing these men do, approaching out of nowhere. Like the OP's description of the man at the retreat approaching her out of the blue - another way these men use any utterly flimsy and fleeting connection to impose themselves on a woman).

I don't like being interrupted when I am walking so say 'No thank you'. Random man unleashes a torrent of shouted abuse: 'Are all the fucking people in (home town name) as fucking rude as you?'

I don't break stride but once I am round the corner, I feel obliged to make a detour to ensure this person can't follow me & find out where I live.

God there are so many of these stories. And yet men complain and get angry when women feel obliged to make clear they should back off? And some people still think we should prioritise sparing the men's hurt feelings?

My name isn't being rude to anyone

It can also be easiest to get the polite 'no' in early on. The one problem is that some men react really badly to being told 'no' by a woman. Their entitled rage can be startling and shocking, to the extent that women can feel (and often are) vulnerable to the consequences.

Even more reason to get it in early in a public place - than get coerced into going somewhere else less safe and having to say no then and experience their entitled rage.

That isn’t the only story, us women have many and you say no they do get aggressive very very quickly and sometimes it can be dangerous too and I’ve had to leg it in the past.

in public places most folks ignore it with not my problem too so that doesn’t help at all

if on public transport if I can I sit right at the front to avoid everyone.

Just vulgar

It is important to never let oneself be coerced or persuaded into going anywhere less safe.

I'm afraid I don't ever underestimate entitled male rage. Even in a civilised place with presumably civilised people, like the OP's retreat.

Mr Collins went to Elizabeth's home as soon as all her sisters were of marriageable age, he was expecting to be greeted by 5 young women all fawning and desperate to be picked by him. Once he was disabused of that notion he never lost an opportunity to put the boot into Elizabeth & her family.

Yes this type of ghastly entitled male has always been around, and in the most 'civilised' places.

Posting a response without reading at least the OP's comments is a bit like marching into a pub, announcing your random opinion and then standing around waiting for applause...

The point of forums and threads is its a discussion where you read and respond.

For someone who has no time and such a busy life, you appear to have quite a lot of time for doubling down and slinging mud at others don't you.

Another thing I hate about men when I'm travelling solo is the constant patting and touching.

I just flew to Greece by myself last week for solo travel. On the plane, a man was sitting to my right and a woman was sitting to my left.

The man kept touching me. He was doing legit things like putting his seat belt on, but he couldn't seem to do anything without touching me.
He put his seat belt on - he gently brushed my arm while he did it.
He got his wallet out of his pocket, he touched my thigh while he took his wallet out.
He put his hand on the handiest and his hand brushed off my leg.
He took his seat belt off and he touched my leg while doing it again.

The woman on the other side of me managed to get her seat belt on and off without touching me at all.

Then in Greece, I get a bus. The drivers standing outside. He pats my arm and then pats my back, as I get on.

I Arrive at the hotel. The male hotel owner greets me and pats my arm.and then he does a second pat, he patted my back as I walked in.

His wife didn't touch me or pat me

It's just a pat but I hate being patted!

No woman ever comes over and pats me anywhere, so why do men feel entitled to touch me

SOME men, not ALL men. Really, qualify your massive generalizations and they'll have more impact and resonate more truthfully. 🙄

But we can't tell initially which men. It's Schrodinger's rapist. So we are aware of all of them. Just in case.

Just because your Nigel isn't like that, you claim , we don't know that. Women are entitled to be left alone.

Yes! She absolutely got his reaction right, didn't she? Because it's so true. JA really is flawless on human nature... 😍

DP used to think that in order not to frighten a lone woman while walking down the street in the dark, he should speed up and overtake so he wasn't behind them. When I pointed out that the sound of a speeding up man would be concerning, he listened, and now crosses the street instead. He'd genuinely never realised but got it instantly when I pointed it out.

I think I have been clear that it is not all men. I have male family members and friends who aren't like this. I am not generalising anything, just giving my observations (supported by an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence from other women) that there is a sizeable number of men with a very entitled attitude who don't take kindly to being turned down or otherwise denied what they see fit to expect from women.

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@Sparting

yeah…no. You’re wrong.