To be worried my best friend is male, and what this means for future romantic relationships?

[FairTurtle]

I'm female. My best friend is male. We hang out a lot, are close, know each other's families, etc. He's the person I call if I need help with something, or just need to talk about something. I also have lots of other (and women) friends btw, he just happens to be the closest. We are also geographically close, which has probably contributed to it.

There is zero attraction between us, romantically, sexually, or emotionally. I see him as a sibling/cousin. Always have, for the 8 years since we met. We share a background, are very used to and comfortable in each other's company, like similar films etc, but have wildly different worldviews, interests, and life plans, and desires of a romantic relationship. Nothing he could do, or say, would ever change the fact that I see him like a sibling. And vice versa.

Most of my exes have been pretty cool about this, and I don't necessary see it as an issue. He, however, has exes that have really disliked this. It makes me a bit sad, as it makes me think when he does meet someone and it becomes serious, he and I won't be able to be as close anymore. It would feel like a huge loss, like losing a family member. In the past I've perhaps been a little naive and thought it's odd to care about this - surely lots of people have opposite-sex friends - but I've since realised that it maybe is a bit unusual to have such a close personal friendship with someone of the opposite sex, when it's not part of a wider group, etc?

What do people think? Do you have a male best friend? Just looking for reassurance, I guess.

My bestie is male. I made it very clear when speaking to people on online dating that my best friend was male to weed out those who might have an issue. My partner is absolutely fine with it. No jealously at all from him. They both get on well and there is no weirdness. My friend will give me a hug in front of my partner and it’s not an issue.

His ex was fine with our friendship. Although I was friends with her before I met him so that might have something to do with it? We have been on holiday together just the 2 of us whilst they were together and there were no accusations, she knew we were just friends.

Like you though I hope his next girlfriend will be ok with me. I think it helps that I’m twice the weight of someone he would date though….

So I prioritise his needs and feelings because they don't conflict with my needs and feelings to preserve my platonic friendships.

They don’t conflict because I assume he is also a good partner who prioritises your feelings and wellbeing as importantly as his own. And this is why it works so well.

I get what you’re saying about jealousy and possessiveness, but being uncomfortable with a ‘platonic’ friendship of your partner’s can be very valid if your partner is unduly prioritising them over you.

Please do not confuse the statistic that 90% of women have been sexually harassed with 90% of men have sexually harassed a woman.

Also why are you talking about lesbians and bisexuals as if they’re the same. And What about my bisexual partner? Who can I trust him to be friends with?

@FairTurtle friendship and romance and love aren't universally defined concepts- of course there are some basics but they mean different things to different people. I couldn't love a man romantically I didn't see as a friend. I love my female friends platonically. I don't love my male friends. That's personal to me and different for everyone but I'm explaining why some women don't see things the same way you do.

I also don't subscribe to all of your definitions of romance.

I wouldn't want a boyfriend who had a female best friend who called him a brother/bestie/shared innermost secrets, was the first person she thought of to call. If he had very close bonds with male friends, family members etc, not a problem, I have those too.

I wouldn't get with him and try to wreck his friendships- he isn't someone I'd get involved with on the first place.

It's up to your friend to safeguard your friendship if he gets into a relationship. If he "allows" a girlfriend to change your dynamic, that's on him.

There is definitely an emotional intimacy there as there is with all very close friendship, whoever is in them. It's funny because one of my very close friends who I tell I love is a lesbian but it's a completely different dynamic than it is with straight male friends. Other posters have touched on this.

And people quoting me in relation to who they'd call first - I was replying to OP who said she would call him about everything- she didn't specify.

I also have a fairly low opinion of men generally which is why at this stage in my life (mid 40s) I wouldn't bother with any I'm not related to or involved with (which is also unlikely). The people who have unfailingly supported and loved me through thick and thin are definitely my female friends.

But what does "prioritising" mean? Some people seem to think it means anything you do for friends above the bare minimum, regardless of circumstance. If I go out to dinner weekly with a friend, am I prioritising him? If DP has a female travel buddy (who predates me), is he prioritising her? If a friend and I drop everything to go to a certain artist's concerts, are we prioritising each other? If DP goes round to an ill friend's house to cook for her and keep her company, is he prioritising her?

To me the answer is no in all of those situations but I also know that if I posted any of them on here, there'd be a slew of posters absolutely certain that we're both having affairs.

Exactly. Absolutely, I am sometimes prioritising other people over DH, and he is prioritising other people over me. Because we are both people with other people in our lives, who sometimes need or want or offer different things to what we need/offer/give one another. It's no threat to our marriage, which has its own status (I don't have a child with any of my friends, I don't live with them, we don't share finances, we've taken no vows etc etc). Our marriage is easily the stronger for it, for having other people who are also in our lives. Whether I've just hopped on a train to see a friend who is in a psychiatric unit in another city three hours away, or gone out for dinner with someone I haven't seen in ages, I'm bringing new experiences, input etc back to my marriage, as is DH. We work in very different fields these days (having trained for the same one), and our professional lives couldn't be more different, and that's good too.

To me, it’s clear what prioritising means, but I appreciate not everyone is in my head. In your examples, I think your partner should come before the friend if they have a greater or same need at that time or if your partner receives that time and attention from you less often. So..

dinner weekly with a friend, am I prioritising him? Yes, if you don’t also take equal or more available quality time with your partner. (I say ‘available’ as if you have a partner who works long hours or away from home, then this might be different)

If DP has a female travel buddy (who predates me), is he prioritising her? Yes if he foregoes travel with you that you want to do with him.

If a friend and I drop everything to go to a certain artist's concerts, are we prioritising each other? What does ‘drop everything’ entail? Dropping plans with your partner that are fairly objectively significant and important to him? Not OK. Dropping a weekly recurring date night – fine.

If DP goes round to an ill friend's house to cook for her and keep her company, is he prioritising her? If you have a reasonable and competing need for his presence/support at the same time, then not OK. Eg, you’re also physically unwell or injured, you’re struggling mentally with something like work, unwell or difficult children, if he works away/very long hours and it’s a bubble of time together you might rarely have.

It’s definitely nuanced, and not everyone can be reasonable with their degree of ‘need’.

This doesn’t account for nuanced prioritisation though – when your partner has an equal or greater need occurring at the same time. Just like in a work situation, prioritisation only comes up when you have conflicting needs to be handled.

I don't think 'nuanced' prioritisation' is in any way a necessary concept in about 98% of the life of a marriage, though -- in general, I'm not triaging conflicting needs between friends and DH. A lot of people on Mn, I notice, seem to be very low-energy. I generally don't have any problem doing A and B rather than A or B. Short of unusual, very serious situations, both are usually possible.

It’s definitely nuanced, and not everyone can be reasonable with their degree of ‘need’.

Exactly - a lot of the time people will frame their wants as needs. 'Neediness' (at least by my perception) is a characteristic I couldn't stand in a partner and something I'd drop men for instantly. When it comes to crises, of course DP and I would drop everything for each other, but we're lucky enough to have only had a couple of those in 12 years. And ultimately, though we get plenty of quality time together, we're both self-sufficient people who enjoy our own company - neither of us would need the other to stay in and look after us if we were ill, for instance.

@gannett

Exactly - a lot of the time people will frame their wants as needs. 'Neediness' (at least by my perception) is a characteristic I couldn't stand in a partner and something I'd drop men for instantly.

Totally agree. When people are talking about “prioritising” a partner’s needs on this thread what they often mean is “pandering to their insecurities”.

Of course a partner should top the hierarchy of needs in an absolute sense but that shouldn’t enable the partner to arbitrarily impose rules about how you spend time and with whom in order to allow them to feel like “top dog”.

A strong marriage or partnership should not require endlessly reiterating this hierarchy and should be able to accommodate other close bonds.

Yes. Absolute need comes up comparatively seldom in the average relationship, unless you're terribly unlucky. And agree abouts 'wants' masquerading as 'needs'.

Yeah it's hardly weird. My DS goes to cinema with his name friend. Athing which his girlfriend is very happy about as her taste in films is completely different.

He also goes with best friend to eat out ( sit down meal not fast food)

What is weird about it?

And the nuance is there and can change very quickly when a ‘want’ is always neglected and therefore can turn to a need in regard to supporting your partner’s wellbeing. For example, you’re not going to die if you’re left alone with the flu, and you’re not going to die if you’re left in for a movie night on your own. Any one instance of these can, on the face of it, be regarded as a ‘want’, but if you are regularly and/or unnecessarily left alone during the times you don’t feel at your best, then that turns into a very real neglect. Time and attention to our partners is how one knows we are loved and supported, and the issue arises when it is not applied enough, consistently or given more readily and frequently to others.

Edited to add: and I think this becomes even more pronounced at problematic when there is one friend who always seems to receive the time and attention, as opposed to a spread.

Well I'm 53 and still think men and women can be friends without sex. Any yeah certainly seen a load of relationships go down the pan but not due to someone having a friend of the opposite sex. My bf I spoke about earlier His first wife got together with his ( at the time) male best friend.

Another friend of mine his wife left him for her FEMALE best friend

But we're not discussing the majority of (presumably good and functional marriages) or marriage that fail or are problematic for other reasons. We're discussing marriages in which 'friends' become a legitimate problem – and that probably is a minority. And that circa 2% (or whatever it is) ends up on MN, posting concern over their partner investing more time in others as opposed to their marriage. Nuanced prioritisation might not be a concern in 98% of your well-functioning relationship, but it can be a significant concern in others'.

An 'absolute' need does not have to be a single event where your need is significantly or dangerously high – it can be a 'simple' want or need on the face of it, but the problem occurs when that simple want or need has been repeatedly neglected. The straw that breaks the camels back, if you will.

My best friend is male but he is gay so it's not really the same I guess.

@Didimum

But we're not discussing the majority of (presumably good and functional marriages) or marriage that fail or are problematic for other reasons. We're discussing marriages in which 'friends' become a legitimate problem – and that probably is a minority. And that circa 2% (or whatever it is) ends up on MN, posting concern over their partner investing more time in others as opposed to their marriage

But those are failing anyway surely? If friends become a problem in the marriage it’s usually a fairly reliable sign that all is not well in the marriage. Not that more “prioritisation” is necessary.

By the time you get to the point where one partner is more interested in spending time with their friends than with the partner the ship has sailed.

Well, yes, it's a partner problem. Not a 'having friends' problem. I think the discussion is becoming a bit circular and overly general!

In the context of OP's original query – that she's concerned their friendship will change when her friend gets a girlfriend – then I think the answer is that yes, it's something that you can expect and should brace yourself for, and that it's reasonable. Because say if they see each other to hang out twice a week, then depending on the limits of his free time, that time will then have to be allocated to his partner instead of OP.

If friends become a problem in the marriage it’s usually a fairly reliable sign that all is not well in the marriage. Not that more “prioritisation” is necessary.

I sort of disagree with this in that it doesn't have to be an 'all is lost' scenario. If someone can be pulled up on their behaviour, take the issue to heart and make changes, then it can turn a failing relationship into a good one. It depends whether the 'prioritisation' is the issue or a symptom of another issue!

I'm afraid I would have very little time for someone who downgrades his or her friendships for the sake of a relationship. Quite apart from anything else, you'd be unwise to ditch a longterm, valued, tried and tested friendship for the sake of a new relationship that may not last.

Fortunately, none of my friends, male or female, thinks it's natural or normal for friendships to give way to a relationship. It's not an either/or thing.

Completely depends on how much free time you have and how much you see your friend(s). If due to work/children/something else you only have 2 free evenings or a weekend free, then at least half of that time has to be re-allocated to seeing your partner instead – it would be very challenging to build or maintain a solid relationship with that little time spent together.

My good friend, for example is a nurse who works nightshifts 8pm-8am. When she's been dating, in the past, she leaves for work at 6:30, when her boyfriend's have been coming home from work, and then coming home when her they are leaving for work. If she has two days off a week, then seeing her partner should be prioritised, even if prior to meeting him she would have been with friends instead. Otherwise when would they ever see each other? It's not 'downgrading' a friend – it's taking the time to build a relationship with someone that you (presumably) want to live with, own property with, have children with and retire with. Your friends and you have had that building and bonding time already – if you want a life partnership with someone then time sacrifice to then build it with them has to come in somewhere if your time is limited.

I never said it's a binary choice. However if a person meets a potential partner they forsee a long and happy relationship with, they will need to compromise on some areas of life. If the new girlfriend, for example, is not keen on weekly clubbing nights with female "best friend" or multiple texting sessions every evening, then it's likely that said man will reduce contact with the best friend to a moderate amount, rather than risk making the girlfriend unhappy.

My best friend is male and we've been friends for over 10 years. Nothing wrong with it at all but people can be so narrow minded about stuff like this. You do you! X