School banning banter

[Citrusblast92u]

DS is in year 11. They had a whole school assembly yesterday's entitled 'banning bants', this includes banter between friends. One strike and they're in detention, 2 and they have to attend a workshop, 3 and parents have to attend the workshop, 4 and the police are called.

I asked him what they meant by bants and he said anything that anyone might find offensive. His mates have spent many hours at our house. They're a lovely bunch of lads, very polite and kind but their main form of communication with each other is piss taking.

Just after some opinions really rather than an AIBU.

Yabu-banter should be banned
Yanbu-they can't ban banter

The fragility on this thread is unbelievable

According to the OP, the police are only involved if detention, workshop, parents attending workshop has not worked.
And of course it is offensive comments that would be taken this seriously and that this path would be taken.
I would hope that the police would be involved if banter included threats of sexual assault, etc.

If both people are equal and truly enjoy it, it’s banter. If one of them doesn’t (even if they pretend they do), it’s bullying.

It’s true that it can be difficult to tell the difference, but I can see the school's point.. Bullies, when challenged, will often say things like "It’s just banter! It was a joke! You're over-reacting! Haven't you got a sense of humour?"

Its absolutely the norm for the more popular kids who don't realise their 'banter' when applied outside their friendship group is actually bullying.

Some lads will laugh it off in the moment as don't want to be seen as being over sensitive, but it actually upset them.

Its funny how its never the uncool kids in trouble for banter, eh

4 and the police are called

This suggests that when they say 'banter' they mean 'hate speech'. The kind of thing that is massively racist, homophobic, misogynist, threatening etc which some people try to dismiss as 'banter'.

Clearly the school is not going to call the police because some lad has called their mate a daft cunt or nicknamed him Stinkbomb because he farts all the time.

By 'banter' they mean calling their friend a fggot or a Pki all the time and then claiming it's just a joke.

I suspect the school are having trouble with bullying and when the teachers try to address it pupils and parents just throw back 'It was only banter for fuck's sake!'

School can't win.

It's 100% to tackle hate speech, and your son's interpretation of it being anything anyone could be offended by is wrong, either because the message has been badly delivered or because he's annoyed by it and is deliberately being obtuse - you need to unpick that with him and talk through the difference between homophobic, misogynist, racist, transphobic etc. language and taking the piss out of friends. There is absolutely no way a school is talking about police referrals unless the policy is aimed at hate speech.

If posters have teenage boys and their group of mates were chatting and in their conversation you heard misogynistic comments, not aimed at a particular person but still misogynistic. Would you call them out on it, would you want your son to call them out on it? Or would you just excuse it as banter and not harming a specific person.

If you wouldn’t want it calling out, why not? I assume you would if they were being racist.

Problem being is you have no idea what’s happening inside for the person it’s being said to. See my post, to start with my DD laughed along because she wanted to be friends with the girl. She’s not over weight but equally more a size 10 then a size 6 like her friends, so that ‘banter’ calling her fat, or commenting on what she’s got for lunch today, she might be laughing along but what do you think she was thinking about at bedtime that night, way after the banter girls had forgotten all about it.

They’re not going to get the authorities involved when 2 friends are messing about having fun with each other.

They are wanting to put a stop to bullying which is disguised as ‘banter’.

The school does not have time to pull up everyone joking with their mate but they will not tolerate bullying behaviour or comments that someone finds offensive.
Which can only be a good thing.

So if someone is heard making a racist comment or someone complains about someone being racist to them, then they will be pulled up on it and they can’t just use the phrase ‘it’s just banter’.

I assume you don’t have teens or work in a school.
Unfortunately, a lot of bullying and offensive behaviour happens which goes unpunished purely because it’s ‘banter’ and the victim is made to feel like they can’t report it for this reason.

Only by idiots

Something that isn’t unkind? I find it pretty easy to have a bit of fun and laugh without resorting to nasty ‘banter’.

I'm 46, so grew up in a generation where "banter" was acceptable. I can honestly say that I have witnessed more extreme cases now, than I did then. Whatsapp groups and online games can be incredibly toxic, and the amount of racist, disablist and misogynistic language absolutely staggering. My kids are banned from all Whatsapp groups and not allowed to voice chat online for that reason. For some (optimistically, I would like to think most!) banter is just gentle teasing that bonds people together a bit, but I can completely see the logic in banning it completely to limit the spread of this kind of abuse.

@Longma that sort of defeats the object. School are trying instil in these young minds that some of the conversations they are having are not acceptable whether in school or outside of school. People excusing it as banter, boys will be boys etc just carries on the mindset for males that they can carry on being misogynistic etc.

I really don't agree with the sledgehammer to crack a nut approach. What I am trying to say is that the school need a better approach to determining and educating on the difference between genuine banter and bullying, and that what might feel like banter to you, may feel like bullying to them. Where the line is, well that is very difficult to determine. But that doesn't mean you ban banter and police mutually agreeable private conversations.

When

Banter is bullying. It’s what you say when you’re being an absolute total dick. I’m assuming that’s what they’re referring to. It’ll only get reported if kids are upset by it so if your boys are making jokes in your home I’m sure they’re not going to get found out.

I absolutely would call him out on it, and have done (the trend of calling women 'Karen' for example - low level, but I always challenge sexism). And yes, I'd expect him to call his friends out, too - he's certainly not afraid to (and has done). It may not be harming a specific person, but the entrenched prejudices around women are incredibly harmful and it's only by calling out some of the assumptions around negative gendered language (women are 'bossy' and not assertive for example) that anything will ever change. And it'll take boys and men challenging it to change it, because let's face it nobody listens to women.

I completely agree with you. Any kind of thinly veiled prejudice in the form of 'banter' should be challenged.

Clearly there has been some serious bullying labelled as banter. That’s what they’re tackling.

@Newsenmum it doesn’t even have to be serious bullying, it can be a general mindset that using racist, misogynistic terms etc amongst your mates is fine, especially if it is not targeted at a specific person. This needs to be challenged.

Social media and the likes of Andrew Tate have a lot to answer for, but so have parents who just say well it has always been this way.

Banter definitely can be bullying.
It's also not the only way to bond with someone.

Teacher here! Yes, we’ve tried to do the same. As others have said, what is banter to one pupil is offensive to another. This is especially true regarding older siblings/cousins/their friends who extend it to the younger pupils…who then use it with their friends as it’s seen as the thing to do.

It’s also amazing how ‘bantz’ often lead to a friendly head lock here, a punch on the shoulder there…it quickly goes from banter, to a mucky fight, to a full on punch up 😬

It is an overly simplistic solution to a very complicated type of social interaction. It will be impossible to police because children/teens will simply switch the word banter to something else and say they were not bantering.

I totally agree. All banter is totally subjective. I was merely offering up a view that banter is enjoyable for many people. I enjoy being the recipient of banter, and I love giving it back. It makes us laugh and it makes the day go quicker.

I fully accept that myself and both the guys and girls I work with have zero boundaries when it comes to banter. No subject or insult is off limit. It’s not for everyone and we are not bad people. Perhaps a lesson for all is to ‘read your audience’.