School banning banter

[Citrusblast92u]

DS is in year 11. They had a whole school assembly yesterday's entitled 'banning bants', this includes banter between friends. One strike and they're in detention, 2 and they have to attend a workshop, 3 and parents have to attend the workshop, 4 and the police are called.

I asked him what they meant by bants and he said anything that anyone might find offensive. His mates have spent many hours at our house. They're a lovely bunch of lads, very polite and kind but their main form of communication with each other is piss taking.

Just after some opinions really rather than an AIBU.

Yabu-banter should be banned
Yanbu-they can't ban banter

Banter/roasting/having a laugh Iv heard from my teen dc is rude or bullying - not whitty or anything remotely like it. No place in school or work

My DS is bullied. They get away with it sometimes by calling it banter. I'm not sure they actually understand the difference.

My thoughts exactly.

Most kids in secondary schools who defend it as "just banter" are in fact being racist, sexist or otherwise using hate speech.

I was a secondary school teacher until recently it and it really is quite common even in good schools for teenagers to break the bounds of reasonable behaviour.

At my old school we regularly had to involve the police, usually due to kids fighting and actually seriously injuring someone (broken leg, head injury etc) or bringing in a knife.

Sexual coercion and blackmail was also common - so the lad would say to his girlfriend do this or I'll send this naked picture of you round, she'd refuse to do it and he'd send a naked picture of her to the whole year WhatsApp group. Police get involved then as well as that's distributing child pornography technically as well as appalling
Behaviour.

I've heard the lad in that case describe seeing the photo round as "bantz" as well.
Revenge porn isn't bantz but some teens genuinely think it's funny and if it's funny it's bantz and thus it's ok.

Banter as the teens use it includes practical jokes (= stealing someone's valuable stuff and destroying it, etc etc).

Not to mention the girl who called someone else a "fucking P*ki" and passed that off as "bantz"

We had about ten or eleven racial abuse cases a year and nearly all the perpetrators passed them off as "bantz"

🤦‍♂️who wants life to be like the workplace ffs

Children need to be taught the difference between banter and bullying.Banning it won't help that, and is daft. It's likely to be impossible to enforce to anyone's satisfaction.

For those who excuse banter maybe you should read the OFSTED review paper on peer on peer abuse (now called child on child abuse). There are some horrifying statistics on how many young people (mainly girls) have to put up with sexual harassment, name calling taunts etc. When surveyed many boys classified this as banter.

Now I know this has been happening forever and this report was commissioned after the Everyone’s invited website was set up for victims of sexual behaviour in schools to post their experiences. Initially it concentrated on historic abuse but more and more people posted about current incidents and that promoted OFSTED to act and new safeguarding guidelines for schools which specifically refer to not using banter, boys will be boys as an excuse for any such behaviour. Obviously this report/guidelines deals with other aspects of abuse/behaviour as well.

Maybe, just maybe we can start making a difference, but it can’t just be schools sending this message, it’s got to come from the home too. We need to change the mindset

@oldwhyno do you think the pupils were told we don’t accept banter, end of assembly, never to be discussed again. Do you not think the assembly might have been slightly longer than that, that there will be more discussion in tutor groups, PHSE lessons?

@crumblingschools do imagine a school can't do that and maintain a ban on bullying, without having to resort to ill-defined nonsense like banning banter?

@oldwhyno but as many of us have said it is not just looking at behaviour towards a particular person, but a mindset. So if a group of boys are sitting in a group using misogynistic language but not actually directing it at a particular girl, that wouldn't be bullying but they would probably argue that it is banter. But we don't want young men thinking misogny is fine

You may not have done, but there’s usually a line that we’re more comfortable crossing when parents aren’t around!

I’m not saying your son or friends have done anything wrong btw, I imagine there’s an issue at the school and they’re just trying to get it under control. It’s going to be too much for them to say “well it would be alright if A had said it to B, but not C” so they’re probably just trying to keep it simple.

We occasionally go in for banter at work, not often but we got a new female manager and she likes a joke as do we all. Now I have a huge arse and there was a sm thing about balancing a cup on your arse so apparently it was hilarious to see if I could do it. I refused but I felt so upset. As they say a joke is only funny if everyone is laughing.

Reactions to banter will vary dependent on lots of things, including life experiences.

I got bullied for years at school and then after school some people tried it at a random meeting. I did an ill advised Facebook rant post.

Had a few responses from those involved saying I wasn't being bullied it was banter...

The difference is the banter they had with me was more physical and constantly derogatory rather than the kind they had with their other " friends" where they were often more lighthearted moments, not physical

@MyUmberSeal what happens if you get a new team member join who doesn't like banter?

The definition of banter is "an exchange of light, playful, teasing remarks; good-natured raillery." If it doesn't meet this definition, it isn't banter, no matter the protestations of teenagers who misuse the word.

The school needs to reiterate that if it is not a) an exchange, i.e. a two way thing, b) light and playful; not hurtful and heavy, and c) good natured, with good intent, it is not banter, it is bullying. Banter is where everyone has fun, bullying is where someone is the victim.

So you discipline them for that behaviour, you don't need to throw the towel in and try and just ban all banter. Hopelessly weak approach.

If their preference was as you say…we would be respectful and not direct any of the banter at them. But as much as we should be respectful, they can’t monopolise an environment with their own sensitivities. Inclusivity works both ways, not always bowing down to the most sensitive denominator. And they defo wouldn’t be included in the WhatsApp groups.

@MyUmberSeal so are you racist, misogynistic in your banter?

So you'd exclude them because you're not willing to address your approach?

Could you give an example of the kind of stuff you and your colleagues might say?
I like a bit of a laugh in the workplace but would act much more professionally there than I would out for a drink with my friends.

In my experience ‘’banter’’ is used an excuse to be an arsehole. It usually involves verbal bullying. So yeah, I can understand the schools stance on this and I’d be all for it. Don’t think I’ve ever come across ‘’banter’’ that wasn’t blatant arseholery.

@Teanbiscuits33 but you're not describing banter. You're describing bullying and meanness being passed off as banter.

Well, that’s what most people say to excuse bullying so as a pp said, this approach means there’s no grey areas. It’s always the same dickheads that need to grow up that go on about ‘’banter’’

I agree that those who overuse the word 'banter' in place of actually having said banter are extremely childish and unamusing. But I dislike this instinct we seem to have now to ban things that people enjoy because of the behaviour of others. When working in Scotland recently, I was shocked that I couldn't buy alcohol on the way home from work. The reason? Something to do with drug and alcohol problems primarily in Glasgow. So the majority must live sterile, puritanical lives because that is easier than getting to the root of the problem. Policing speech like this is impossible.

So if OP is correct, and the school has outlawed banter, in literal and correct terms, then the children must be going around like the care bears, and being deprived of the ability to practise and regulate their speech