Dil trying to ruin my relationship with my dd

[worldlyweather]

When my son met his now wife he was still living at home as was my dd.
Dil used to spend a lot of time at our house with ds but admittedly my dd didn't take to her straight away and while my dd didn't realise she was here dd came in mocking her and she overheard.
Ds and dil then moved to their own house and have since married and had a child, I didn't go to the wedding as dd was excluded.

Dil wants nothing to do with my dd and ds has backed her decision, this means our dd has never even met her nephew and misses her brother and is utterly heartbroken by all this.
I haven't met him either as I have been instructed not to come with my dd but have decided not to exclude her knowing this is so hurtful and have explained my reasons to ds and dil.
I have tried to get my ds to put things right with his sister but he's not interested and is refusing to see me at my home because she might be there and I will not turn her away because they don't want to be friendly.
Ds says I should be on their side as dd did wrong and I shouldn't protect her but I feel this is an overreaction and needs to be addressed, while I agree that she was perhaps unkind she didn't deserve to be cut off.

The family have been invited to visit but again this is to be with the exclusion of my dd who is devastated and so far we've stayed away until she's included, unfortunately this doesn't look like it's ever going to happen and I miss my son and I'm missing out on my first grandchild.
They have never made any ultimatum but it feels like there's an invisible ultimatum that if I want a part in their life it's to be at the exclusion of dd or I lose the relationship with them altogether.
I feel in an impossible position as in my mind I'm standing by my dd over dil but my son sees it that I'm standing by my dd over him and that I'm choosing not to see them by choosing her.

I'd agree with this. I just can't comprehend some of the comments. One remark isn't bullying or abuse, the son's behaviour is totally over the top, its not having boundaries, just a complete over reaction. Especially refusing to invite her to his wedding. Why doesn't he just say - fgs sister just apologise to SiL and we'll move on. But no, he's cut her off.
It does make me wonder whether the sister's comment actually wasn't very wide of the mark.

I think in any half normal family the daughter would have apologised quickly and sincerely and hoped they could all move on.

She didn't. She allowed it to drag on.
The DIL never returned to the house, they went on to buy a house and marry.
All the while the daughter never apologised and her mother stood over her not apologising, therefore supporting the remark and not attending her sons wedding.🙄

Being mocked is not nice but a sincere apology might have sorted things out.
But the daughter didn't want to, didn't feel it warranted it, so chose to allow things to fester.

It's a horrible situation but the OP presided over it and didn't go to her own sons wedding.

I think there is more to the sheer awfulness of this situation and the OP has behaved appallingly.

There is something very bloody minded in the personality of the daughter to have caused such upset but think she won't apologise and try and smooth things over.

The son is probably mortified.
Daughter cannot be that upset if she has refused to apologise for 4 years.

That as a mother you could support your daughter not apologise for the wrong she did, and not go to your sons wedding......I am mortified for you.
Your sons in laws and friends must think you all are some awful shower of people.

I doubt this will ever be healed.
All this grief avoided for the want of a deserved apology.🙄
What sad lives some people lead.

It is very telling that the OP says the daughter "hasn't had the chance" to apologize. Over FOUR YEARS.
This is very dishonest and may be illustrative of years of dishonest and manipulative behavior by the OP and her daughter. It is certainly a ridiculous thing to say.
I strongly suspect that the son and his wife are not just going no contact over this one incident.

Obviously dd needs to apologise, after that you just have to leave it I guess.
Sad tho because if that was a one off and dd has shown remorse, does she get punished forever? The silent treatment and exclusion are also forms off aggression, none of them sound very nice tbh
They should've hashed it out there and then and made dd apologise immediately
Instead families have broken over this
Sad and also ridiculous

Your DD was brattish to mock her. Immature and nasty. It sounds like she gets away with this kind of thing, whereas when DS and his partner set a boundary and say they won't be treated like that you take DD's side. And they are continuing to set a boundary. You are choosing not to respect your DS's boundary by insisting DD is included. They are adults. Why does she have to come along. She doesn't like your DIL (and by the way, did you simply let her mock her? Is it just that she got caught?)
Sounds like DD is the golden child, DS is the scapegoat who gets blamed even when he's done nothing wrong, and you are playing favourites.
He has his own family now.... either join in on his terms or let him get on with it. Right now you're just causing problems and being difficult, and your DD sounds like she deserves to be kept at a distance.

I also think your son in being so firm in his boundary and supporting his wife is well aware of just how toxic his mother and sister are.

He and his wife are 100% correct to not accept your daughters rudeness and refusal to apologise.

Your son is putting his family first and will no doubt be the happier for it.

Couldn't agree more.

The daughter "didn't warm" to DIL from the start - I wonder what that entailed.

Had your DD been consistently unpleasant to future SIL then your DS would be well within his rights to go NC with her.
I would ask - what was the relationship like between them before this incident?
DD did/said something that she did now know the future SIL might hear, in front of her mother, in her own home. I doubt you would have entertained real nastiness - if you had, then both of you owed a sincere apology at the time.
However, can everyone here honestly say they have never gossiped about someone behind their back, or made a joke at their expense without them knowing.
I don’t have kids, but my DP does and informed and say, God knows that they say about me when I’m not there. And in my twenties, I am absolutely sure that one sister I locked horns with would have had plenty to say about me to her own mum. It’s human nature, no it’s not always nice, but if anyone on here has never talked about someone when they are not present, well I am
a billionaire.
I think to invite a mother, but not a daughter, to a wedding is really, really unkind in itself. It is a real act of unkindness that detonates a bomb into a family early on. Yes, it might have been a good idea for mum to go but if you have ever been to an event like this where someone is excluded and the other relative has to plaster on a smile, it’s painful.
I am not saying the DIL shouldn’t have been upset. If it was seriously unkind abuse then of course stick a big fat boundary up.
But the DD did not mean for her to hear something, and couldn’t we all think of an occasion where we would have been mortified to turn around and find someone listening to us stick a big fat foot in our own mouth?
There is still time to apologise, but I have a feeling the DIL doesn’t want to know. DD can always try, but then if it’s not accepted then that’s that really.
I feel for you OP it’s not a pleasant situation to be in.

But the DD refused to apologise and the OP agrees that she shouldn't.

Maybe the DIL would have accepted a sincere apology at the time and it would have all been over and done with.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the "mocking" was:

1. The straw that broke the camel's back after constant and sustained snide comments, mocking looks, teasing and various other obvious disliking behaviours
2. Hit a nerve because it either mocked something DIL is insecure about such as her walk or how she eats or her weight or it mocked something that would be a protected classification like her accent, her racial background, a speech impediment or a disability

The fact DD didn't apologise (and I'm assuming that DS and DIL didn't immediately move out upon the mocking so she had chance afterwards to try) showed a complete lack of respect.

Frankly OP should be glad that DS is even trying to facilitate a relationship with her when OP was there for the mocking, presumably laughing, and doesn't think her DARLING daughter did a thing wrong nor tried to get an apology sorted.

Other mothers would have insisted she apologise or even faked an apology to try and fix things

Then it's no wonder they don't want to see your daughter, and I'm surprised they want to see you.
Their reaction is probably driven by the complete lack of care or empathy your daughter has shown over 4 years rather than the initial situation.

You apologise when you offend people, period. It doesn't matter if she wasn't meant to be heard by your Dil or that she was at home. She was wrong and should have apologised immediately.

4 years down the line, I'm not sure how she can make any attempts sound genuine.

I agree with many pp that your daughter should have apologised immediately. Also, you should have respected your son’s and SIL’s boundaries of not wanting to invite your daughter to the wedding. Why would anyone invite a person who dislikes them or is contemptuous of them to their wedding? You should have gone to your son’s wedding.

Your daughter is an adult. She made her own bed, she should lie in it. And you don’t need to climb in there with her.

That your daughter mocked her and you don’t think it was that big a deal reveals just how toxic you and your daughter are. The only person I know who would do the same thing is someone who is very bitter, jealous and bitchy as most people simple do not behave in such a way. Yet somehow, it’s DIL’s fault for being hurt. SMH.

OP, why did you condone the behaviour of your daughter that day four years ago. You could have shut it down immediately, the second it started. It’s so bad that your daughter thought she had an audience with you, to mock her DB’s fiancé, whether your DIL was listening or not. That sounds like bullying-type behaviour. You were listening and you should have stopped her and told her off.

Did you encourage your dd to apologise, with sincerity, straight away, and to try her hardest to put things right.
Or did you encourage her to think she had done no wrong and that DIL was in the wrong and taking it too far.

It’s never too late to apologise if it’s a genuine apology where you and your dd have had time to seriously think about things with more maturity, put things into perspective….see things from your DIL’s point of view.

As a role model for your dd you can now at least try to set a good example to her by apologising to her for not discouraging her bad behaviour originally, and letting her know how much you regret your own behaviour that day …and all that it has led to.
Tell her that you are going to give a heartfelt apology to DIL for not acknowledging her level of hurt for years ago and for not attending their wedding. Encourage your dd to do the same if she wants to have a relationship with brother and family.
I hope you can start to mend this family rift OP.

You have the exact relationship you deserve. You seem to be oblivious to you and your daughter's actions, he is well rid.

Dd is 24 and you sound awful acting as though it's ok to be mean as you shouldn't expect to be overheard. You've prioritised a mean adult over a relationship with your grandchild

OP definitely isn’t coming back

Do we really think it's over this one incident? I think there must be a lot more history than that for them to put such distance between themselves and the daughter. It's a pretty bold move to not invite a sibling to your wedding.

I didn't invite one SIL to things like christenings, children's birthday parties, etc. Having her there was unpleasant and one day I realised that I didn't want to look back and see every event as being tarnished by her and her attitude. I wanted happy memories of those important events. DH preferred it too and was much happier. There's always a reason.

I cannot believe your DD has not apologised!!!

Didn’t RTFT but just with the title you can see the OP’s mindset is so toxic and mean-spirited, considering what the issue is. Confirms also daughter is the golden child. DIL hasn’t said anything about the mother-daughter relationship, the son has been clear his sister is not welcomed due to what she did.

OP also clearly despises DIL, and I wonder if the mocking was linked to some sensitive topic (race, disability…) and OPs agrees with that view.

The son and the DIL might be going a little overboard but it is OK if they want to make a point, as it is clear they are really not good people. I am not sure if there is a father in the mix but hope he is a better parent than OP.

This is blatantly favouring one child over the other and it’s so sad. I have a young son and I can’t imagine ever treating him like this. Your son feels as though you’re standing by your daughter over him because that’s exactly what you are doing. You refused to go to his wedding or meet his child because you don’t agree with your daughter having consequences for her disgusting behaviour. If I were him I wouldn’t speak to you at all. And your daughter should have apologised profusely as soon as it happened. If she doesn’t want people to cut her off she shouldn’t be such a bully in the first place. She needs to learn this. You’re not helping her by acting like she’s perfect and everyone else is in the wrong for upsetting her. She’ll do the same thing to others and will eventually have no one left but you.

Apologising would make things much easier to let go. The DIL expects a woman she cruelly mocked to... to what? Welcome her with a smile?

Abbylikeswine · Yesterday 15:11
Sadly I've seen this happen with women many times before. Women over dramatise things. And they things to extreme levels.

If a man laughed at another man in the family, they wouldn't even fall out about it.

Ie "John is a bald prick hahaha " they'd still be fine.

If a woman says one thing wrong to another woman, the woman will never let it go, and will never speak to the other woman again.

Women are extreme. I have to say I've seen the OPs scenario several times in families with women..

Women will not let things go
------------

Yep, they are all b*tches, aren't they? Over-dramatising, jealous hags.
They just won't let things go. Some of them really do deserve a slap, don't they?

Op, you're excluding yourself by not going to see them without your daughter. You can go and be neutral, say dd was rude and is sorry but their relationship isn't your business and not up to you to fix.

Sadly your daughter has been taught by you that she has no need to apologize because she didn’t mean for DIL to find out.

So she was rude about someone
Hasn’t attempted to apologize and
Doesn’t understand why an apology is necessary.….and you’ve enabled that.

You have offered no route to normalise the situation beyond son and DIL should give over now.

Your daughter (and you) are to blame here, and fundamentally it seems that your daughter still hasn’t learned any manners not to take responsibility for her own actions. It’s quite obvious that she would continue to destroy other relationships because she doesn’t know when to keep her mouth shut.