Dil trying to ruin my relationship with my dd

[worldlyweather]

When my son met his now wife he was still living at home as was my dd.
Dil used to spend a lot of time at our house with ds but admittedly my dd didn't take to her straight away and while my dd didn't realise she was here dd came in mocking her and she overheard.
Ds and dil then moved to their own house and have since married and had a child, I didn't go to the wedding as dd was excluded.

Dil wants nothing to do with my dd and ds has backed her decision, this means our dd has never even met her nephew and misses her brother and is utterly heartbroken by all this.
I haven't met him either as I have been instructed not to come with my dd but have decided not to exclude her knowing this is so hurtful and have explained my reasons to ds and dil.
I have tried to get my ds to put things right with his sister but he's not interested and is refusing to see me at my home because she might be there and I will not turn her away because they don't want to be friendly.
Ds says I should be on their side as dd did wrong and I shouldn't protect her but I feel this is an overreaction and needs to be addressed, while I agree that she was perhaps unkind she didn't deserve to be cut off.

The family have been invited to visit but again this is to be with the exclusion of my dd who is devastated and so far we've stayed away until she's included, unfortunately this doesn't look like it's ever going to happen and I miss my son and I'm missing out on my first grandchild.
They have never made any ultimatum but it feels like there's an invisible ultimatum that if I want a part in their life it's to be at the exclusion of dd or I lose the relationship with them altogether.
I feel in an impossible position as in my mind I'm standing by my dd over dil but my son sees it that I'm standing by my dd over him and that I'm choosing not to see them by choosing her.

And I tell you who I’d be absolutely ashamed of? A 24 year old woman who thinks it’s ok to bully and be unkind about her new SIL (yes it was in her home bla bla but clearly she was a frequent visitor if the brother also lived there). And then doesn’t even apologise…

What exactly is traumatic for the son? His sister taking the piss of his girlfriend? Yes he is probably angry? But traumatised!! Wise up.
What I imagine is happening is his wife is upset and told him he has to cut his sister off to prove his love for her and he has gone with this. Meanwhile wife is delighted fo have punished the sister and got her own way without having to deal with the fact she simply isn’t her sister in laws cup of tea.

You’re martyring yourself because you refuse to acknowledge your daughter was vile.

I suspect you’re downplaying your daughter’s mockery of this woman too.

I imagine very few of us can say we have never taken the piss out of anyone or expressed dislike of someone 🙄

Or she is refusing to be seen to side with a son who is being extremely harsh to his sister at his wife’s request.

He should speak to them both. He is using the silent treatment, a form of abuse, to tell his sister she means fuck all, whilst trying to keep his mother sweet.This is not a normal brotherly response. His wife is also clearly more than happy to have an estranged family and for her son not to see his grand mother because she is unable to get over the fact her sister in law isn’t a fan

There’s a big difference with ‘not being a fan’ of a SIL and displaying cruel, mocking behaviour (seemingly endorsed by your inlaws). The son is not abusive. He is the one, rightfully, protecting his wife from abusive behaviour. How hard is that to understand?

I don’t think it’s traumatising as much as embarrassing/infuriating for him but it definitely is traumatising for the SIL. Imagine trying to impress your ILs and you hear them mocking you 🤮 And he loves the SIL so of course he went nuclear. But why no apology?? And why should he just ignore and let that toxic behaviour carry on into his life? He probably got fed up of it as his sister must have been like it for years. Nasty.

Abuse is a very strong word. Are we all being abusive when we take the piss out of someone?? Or are we just being a bit mean?

My husband and I take the piss out of the fact my brother in law collects plastic tubs and has hundreds of them- if he was to hear us yes he would probably be upset. But are we being abusive?? Should he stop speaking to us for four years and refuse us seeing his kids?
Where exactly do you draw the line?

A bit mean. But if caught we apologise.

Well if I did it at work I’d get a disciplinary for bullying. So it’s more than a ‘bit mean’. Maybe it shouldn’t have escalated to this but it all depends on how the DD behaved after. And how the mum chose to side with the DD over her son which must be hurtful,

No you wouldn’t. Bullying has to be sustained repeated behaviour. Not a one off event. The word bullying is thrown about far too easily.

But you wouldn’t be talking about him when he’s likely to walk in the room and if it was unfortunate enough that he heard you, wouldn’t you do all you could to apologise and make it right? Not go ‘oh it was just a bit of banter get over it’ and not apologise?!

So very sorry. A late colleague and her husband hadn't seen their son and DIL and grandchildren for years and years - then her son had a brain hemorrhage.

At the hospital my colleague asked the DIL if they could move forward from whatever it was she'd done - she never knew - to be friends, and the DIL said no, 'no one calls me names'. So very sad, she never knew what 'names' she was supposed to have said. Her son did recover, but she never saw him or the kids again. She was 70 when she died. It was a warning to me to try to always maintain a good relationship with my son's girlfriend.

4 years and she hasn't apologised? Wow. I wouldn't want her around either to be honest. I have a very strong dislike of people who act like your daughter and mimic people "to have a laugh". Your DIL was probably mortified to think you all thought of her like that.

Then you've repeatedly doubled down by not going to the wedding and not interacting with your son and his family as your rude as fuck DD (who has never apologised for her actions) wasn't invited.

I'm with your son and DIL on this one.

honestly we would probably continue to take the piss of his huge tub collection!! But then we are Irish and can take a good slagging.
In this situation we don’t know what actually was said.

Lol. Ok OP - I see that you are determined not to believe any of the hundreds of posters trying to help you see that your DIL and son are the ones wronged here. Goodnight 🥱

I am not the OP. I am just giving another perspective. Don’t always just assume that in every story there is one victim and one perpetrator. It is far more complex than that on many occasions

Do your son and DIL a favour and leave them alone. They don’t need such awful people in their lives.
How can you say that it’s ok to make fun of someone and be mean if you think they can’t hear you?? You sound just as bad as your vile daughter. The apple didn’t fall too far from the tree obviously.

Have you never said anything mean about anyone??

Absolutely. He has sided with his wife and baby and is not putting up with nonsense. I'm wondering how he was clearly raised right when mom and sister are a hot toxic mess.

Traumatic - probably more than this one incident that was overheard, mother not coming to the wedding thus proving who the golden child in her family is (possibly something he's had to put up with his whole life and this is the final straw).

Wow.

This is quite frankly ridiculous that this has come to this. Your DIL & son holding a grudge for this long over something so silly, to the point of cutting DD out of the family. Utterly ridiculous behaviour from them. Yes, your DD was caught out, she should have apologised there and then. But for DIL & son to STILL be holding a grudge over this is just as bloody childish as the mocking in the first place.

I think at this stage, the only thing really is for your DD to write them a letter to apologise for upsetting her, that it wasn't meant to be malicious and that she wishes they would forgive her and all move on together as a family.

Then you can all hopefully move on from this.

If your DIL & son refuse to accept an apology and refuse to reconcile, then they are a bloody disgrace. I feel for your poor DD. We all fuck up, and to punish her like this is disgusting.

Long term though, if DIL & son do refuse to reconcile, I do think you need to accept that and go form a relationship with your DIL, son, and grandson. Keep your relationship with them separate to that with DD, as sad as that is for you & DD.

ETA: Your son is darn right cruel not inviting his sister to the wedding over this.

Haven’t RTFT so this has probably been said a million times but you and your DD are well out of order and she should have apologised at the time. Team DiL here.