Did women used to enjoy being catcalled?

[Gofastboatsmojito]

Hi,

Filtering a recent discussion with my stepmum I just wanted to survey the 55+ year olds of mumsnet to check whether I'm way off.

She is absolutely insistent that in her youth women (most? all?) enjoyed being whistled or shouted appreciatively at when waking past a building site.

She thinks women's perception of this has changed in the last 20 years. All her friends enjoyed it in the 70s and 80s apparently.

For context she has been the subject of male violence including sexual violence and does not equate the two.

I find it hard to believe everyone enjoyed it and assume that women felt a lot less able to say they didn't like it due to fear of being called frigid, uptight etc.

I'm sure the answer might lie somewhere between the two extremes but just wondering what an AIBU poll might say.

V grateful if women of age 55+ only vote

YABU = in my youth the majority of women I knew considered a wolf whistle as a cheeky but welcome compliment

YANBU = I didn't enjoy this even in the 70s

I’m 54. There was definitely a perception in the 1980s that catcalling was flattering. Women who objected to it were portrayed as humourless feminists who were probably too ugly to be catcalled and therefore jealous.

It only happened to me a couple of times, and I had conflicting feelings about it. Most people want to be thought of as attractive, but there was something startling about a man drawing attention to me in that way. Also, it depends partly on how it’s done. Just a whistle is one thing, but a man shouting comments about a woman’s body is quite intimidating.

And I also had the impression that it wasn’t really a way of communicating with me, but more of a gesture towards the other men who were present. Something like “See, Dave, I’m definitely heterosexual: I am performing heterosexuality and therefore certainly not gay, so stop calling me a poof.” (Men used homophobic slurs frequently in the 1980s.)

51. I used to walk massive detours to avoid building sites. My stomach would crush in anxiety if I came accross one by accident. I remember walking somewhere with a boy and he wondered why I took the weird, long route. It was really, really horrible. I was a waitress, and sometimes groups of men would say things, and it was horrific, serving them and getting comments and whistles. Always worse with foreign men. However, I remember some men in Glasgow singing to me, and they were funny and sweet.

I'm 55 and I hated it. I used the hunch my shoulders to hide my big chest whenever I walked past groups of men. This was the eta when tits were out in every tabloid.

By 16 i'd been flashed at twice, had my boobs and bum grabbed on the bus numerous times,had some bloke wanking on the top deck, and been catcalled weekly. Every barman, shop owner or bus driver felt it was ok to comment on how nice you looked.

Worst of all, they'd often have the gall totell you to cheer up if you didn't respond cheerfully to them.

Fuck that.

I took my 16 year old daughter away to Amsterdam this holiday. A young chap on a moped shouted "you're beautiful" at her and that was her first ever catcall. She thought it was weird. And it wasn't even sexual.

That said, the amount of judgement from boys on girls bodies these days is, by her account, even worse and the comments she got from peers at school were disgusting. I'm a secondary teacher and I certainly think that peer on peer abuse is rising, as is misogyny in young men.

Think I can just about remember being whistled at occasionally 😂
but joking aside, I think it depends on the context?
usually a short whistle or nice comment is just meant as a compliment, or similar. But I think the dynamics have changed over the last couple of decades and there’s more lean towards trying to shock or demean the individual. Far more likely now to come out with a disgusting comment, trying to impress their peers and the more uncomfortable the woman seems the better.

Hated it.

It wasn't flattering - they'd do it to anyone female.

Women learned to smile or the cat-calling might become more aggressive. Men felt a huge entitlement to women's attention.

I took my husband to the barber recently and he asked if I was my husband's daughter. This was a genuine mistake; there is a large age difference and my husband is currently unwell. However, when I said, "No, I'm his wife" there was a load of "I'm flattering you. I'm flattering you" as though I was supposed to be grateful for his error.

Weirdly glad to see others be honest about not minding it. I know I have ridiculously low self-esteem and no self worth though. I've hardly ever had anything like that happen. I work on building sites now and might have a bit of banter with the people I'm working with but never get catcalled/comments. Probably because I actually work there though and the industry is trying to move away from that image as much as they can.

"more lean towards shock or demean"?.
@Waitfortheguinness - if you read the thread, that was far more prevalent in the 70s.

I am 58, I absolutely hated it. I’m mixed race and it was much more unusual back then so there was a hideous racist element of me being exotic and it happened all the time.

But chatting to my MIL last year she said she missed it. I said do you think they were interested in anything at all that you had to say? We had a discussion and I explained about objectification. She is what I would describe as a dim intellectual. She speaks multiple languages could tell you about works of art, historical events, certainly some strong opinions so on the surface comes across as cultured. But she is not remotely enlightened when it comes to misogyny, she is a misogynist. Sort of polished to become a wife and host but nothing else. Really values what men have to say far more than any woman.

I'm 54 and have always hated it. It started for me aged 13 when I'd be tooted at or whistled at while waiting for the bus to get to school.

Even worse are the men who think it's ok to loudly comment about parts of your body.

More recently I've been cat called while I've been out running. One time it was when pushing my daughter's buggy with my then four year old son walking next to me. It's totally inappropriate. It has always made me feel vulnerable and I have never been flattered by it.

I've noticed it has started for my daughter too - she is 16 and she's even been cat called while sitting on a train with me next to her. I was shocked that someone would do that to a young girl sitting with her mother!

I’m 61. I’m a bit surprised at how the voting has gone but note that a lot of women < 55 have commented so perhaps despite you asking them not to many younger women voted.
I was flattered, never felt threatened and I miss it.
It was a really different time though, I felt generally much safer then, I was and am not a feminist and believe the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction which I don’t think is good for society or for women actually.

I'm 71 and I never minded but I don't think that there was the hostility from men that there is now. I never percieved it as a threat. When I was pregnant and feeling fat and dreadful I was walking into work one day, I was wearing black dungarees and red boots, and all my weight was in front, so from the back you couldn't tell. A van went by and the passenger whistled. And then further up the road he stopped and came back to say he hadn't seen I was a Mum to be, and was sorry if he'd upset me. He hadn't - he made me laugh so much!

I'm only 39 so way younger that the demographic that you are thinking of. I got it regularly until about 28/30. As pp have said it used to confirm attractiveness.

I'd never admit it to anyone, but I liked it.

I’m 53 and I loved it. It often turned me on

I was 14 when it first happened and felt intimidated by it. A large group of men whistling at one girl is weird. It happened a couple more time after and then it started to phase out. I don't know whether I just got used to it or genuinely started to view it differently. If I had a 14 year old daughter I'd hate the thought of grown men looking at her in that way.

I think maybe some of them did. I know my Mum (80) and Grandmother (would have been 106) didn't like it at all.

I've had some either very distressing/creepy or downright gross experiences with men. I've mentioned on MN before that for 15 years from being at school, I was stalked by a horrible creep.

I lost count of the amount of 60/70/80 year olds who either said "Lucky you, I wish someone liked me enough to stalk me!" or "I wish I had a stalker", or "It's to be expected for a young, pretty girl. Stop dressing up if you don't want men to pay you attention."
It was like any attention was good attention, even if it was someone scary. I too was told "you'll miss the attention when it's gone".

A couple of times I was asked on dates by strangers who were men old enough not just to be my Dad but my Grandad, sometimes they'd be a bit handsy too which I found horrible. Again, many of the same older generation of women suggested I was "lucky, you should be flattered, it's a brave thing he's done you should at least meet him for a drink." "I wish he'd asked me! No one asks me anymore" I remember saying, "Yes, but it would be appropriate if he asked you, you're 65 and he's 70...I'm 25!!!" only to be told again to be flattered, there's plenty of life in the old dog yet etc. It was like an alternate universe where everything was ok as long as a man noticed you. And if I ever complained, it was "making a fuss, it's just men being men. You'll miss it one day!"

I've no doubt these same women loved the catcalls, wolf whistles etc.

It was different times, and depended on what was said. A wolf whistle was a compliment, a lewd comment not appreciated.
Also changed times, as now it is assumed couples will probably be having an active sex life once of legal age. Back in the 70s it was more assumed you wouldn’t be. Contraception wasn’t as easy or widespread. Men were made to work harder before being allowed sex. 😄

Yes, this.

Didn't mind it too much as it was never done in an uncomplimentary way and often saw the funny side of it. I'd even turn it around sometimes when riding around on my motorbike and let out a Corrrrrr! when seeing a 'tasty fella' .....

48 (haven't voted) and it scared me as a young teen, made me want to dress and act invisible

I remember during the era of The Yorkshire Ripper what the atmosphere was like. Then women and girls were told not to go out at night.
The Reclaim the Night marches started and I went along. Lots of men came out to shout at us, to frighten us to stay at home. Some shouted offensive sexual remarks and made threats.
However, I remember one group of men just constantly wolf whistling, which I suppose was just meant to demean us in another way.
Bloody hell, it's been a hard fight. And continues.

Never been wolf whistled.

But I used to detest when men would say, "Smile it might never happen." What did they know what was going on for me? I did tell a few to get lost.

I didn't like it but I wasn't outraged by it. Now I am. I'm more aware and I think it's creepy and revolting.
Having men wolf whistle at my daughters when they were teens and it upsetting them really bothered me.

I'm 65 and always, always hated it. I'd walk miles more than I had to just to avoid building sites or pubs with groups of men sat outside etc.

51. I never minded it. I was very shy so would have probably died but meh I'd hate it now though cos I'd assume they were taking the piss

I never got whistled at and was secretly jealous of those who did. I realise in hindsight I was lucky because it must have been quite intimidating when you're walking on your own.