Did women used to enjoy being catcalled?

[Gofastboatsmojito]

Hi,

Filtering a recent discussion with my stepmum I just wanted to survey the 55+ year olds of mumsnet to check whether I'm way off.

She is absolutely insistent that in her youth women (most? all?) enjoyed being whistled or shouted appreciatively at when waking past a building site.

She thinks women's perception of this has changed in the last 20 years. All her friends enjoyed it in the 70s and 80s apparently.

For context she has been the subject of male violence including sexual violence and does not equate the two.

I find it hard to believe everyone enjoyed it and assume that women felt a lot less able to say they didn't like it due to fear of being called frigid, uptight etc.

I'm sure the answer might lie somewhere between the two extremes but just wondering what an AIBU poll might say.

V grateful if women of age 55+ only vote

YABU = in my youth the majority of women I knew considered a wolf whistle as a cheeky but welcome compliment

YANBU = I didn't enjoy this even in the 70s

It's an awful thing to say to people, because you don't know what HAS happened. Our posts crossed, but this is exactly why I responded with, 'it already has.'. Terrible for you to have experienced this when you were going through that.

I know! I am gobsmacked actually. I don't know one single woman in real life who enjoys being catcalled, whistled at, and jeered at. Along with constantly being chatted up and hit on. It's dreary and tedious and constant for many women - and goes (for many women,) from as young as 11 or 12 years old, right up to their 50s!

But yeah, no woman I know has ever enjoyed this shit!

The parallel world of Mumsnet strikes again! 😬

I think @ObelixtheGaul it's because you're not seen as a person. Why would that man consider anything? I was a young woman with a sad face, instead of being all smiley and giggly, as I should have been.

I'm 46yrs and I still get it all be it a lot less than in my 20s, mainly due to the size of my chest and I absolutely hate it. The endless jokes and attention my boobs get has been a thorn in my side for most of my life.

@HeySummerWhereAreYou I'm 65 and have never come across a girl or woman who enjoyed this sort of thing. Every day is a school day.

no. It was intimidating as a young woman just going about your day to be leered at by groups of men usually older than you. I was around 11 when it started and I looked older but it was mortifying, frightening and made me feel ashamed that my body would be attracting this attention. It was never enjoyable.

I can't see how to vote, OP, but if I could I'd have voted YANBU.

I'm 70 and I always hated it, I'd walk way out of my way to avoid building sites and such places.

But I'm of the opinion that the men who do this do it for other men to see & hear. It did occasionally come from a lone bloke but, more often than not, it'd come from a group or one man within a group. So I formed the idea that such men did it to reinforce their heterosexuality to the other men (now, why would they need to do that?). I remember once walking along Fleet Street in London when it was Fleet Street, so still inhabited by the newspapers, and there was a group of men walking in front of me and dressed in the clothing of manual workers. One of them kept very ostentatiously turning around to check out every passing female under the age of about forty. I knew he was doing it for his mates' benefit.

I also got a nasty version of 'cheer up' once in the form of 'do you know you look as miserable as sin?'

I'd just heard an old boyfriend had died.

Never mind, hey? Just keep smiling for the lads.

Ha, I loved it! Sorry 😬

Did I enjoy it? Kind of. But only when limited to whistling as a sign of appreciation. Not so sure now, as respect for women seems much lower.

Interestingly, when I used to work as a site engineer on a building site I would get whistled outside the site, but treated equally on site. A couple of guys even asked me what I thought! They would have been mortified at the thought that the whistle might scare a woman.

Yes I agree with you. I just posted that I loved it… but I’m looking at it from light hearted memories. I remember being told to cheer up after I’d been raped the weekend before and it was horrific… but just smile for the lads as you say… I really identify with your comment.

yes i agree, its doesn't excuse it but might explain it. There has been a post on here today about a young schoolchild (boy) who is a shining star in the football team gang who said he wouldn't join the choir because they are all gay. Smacks to me of confidence issues rather than masculine power....as i said, doesn't excuse it though.

I'm so sorry to hear that.

But its not just women! When we were in New Orleans my DH actually got fined $10 for looking miserable. It was the day after Mardi Gras, but even so...

Men used to cat call from their cars as we were walking to school Reprehensible

I'm going to suggest that's a less common incident.

No, it was intimidating and embarrassing, even if I didn't feel immediately threatened. I'm 59 and remember being on edge out on my own as a teenager/20s. I purposely dressed in an androgenous way back then to avoid any attention, which seems sad now looking back. Times are better now thank goodness.

I think a lot of women saw it as a kind of compliment and enjoyed the fact that men found them attractive. Now we would see it differently - women being objectified, male entitlement to invade our space - physical or mental, and comment on our appearance, etc. Connections were not usually made between these two viewpoints in the early days of 2nd wave feminism.

I remember liking it when I was 14/15 and struggling with my self esteem & confidence.
Now aged 23 and after going through some unfortunate situations with men (one including a man pulling a knife out and chasing me in Bethnal Green at 2am when I was as 19) … I can safely say I hate any kind of catcalling or attention from men now.
I’d rather they didn’t look at me at all, let alone try and speak to me.

What a terrifying experience, @Motherofone22 . 💐

About 2 years ago I was waiting at a bus stop. Traffic was queing at the lights. A very expensive car stopped ,driven by a smartly dressed middle aged women and a boy aged around 14. Possibly mother and son. He was wearing the uniform of a local private school . He said the usual " cheer up, it might never happen" I was quite distracted at the time . I said " are you talking to me "? The woman began to snigger as if he had made the most witty comment in the world. He said " yes you.Smile ,you look miserable What's the matter with your face ?" She laughed even more. I said that I was sorry I wasn't happy enough for them but my husband had just died . Who do these people think they are.?

I hated it. That sinking feeling of walking down the road and you see workmen ahead and you can’t cross the road. You know exactly what they’re going to say and if you ignore them more often than not you get called a stuck up bitch. You could be 20 or 30 but equally you could be 14. Horrible.

Erm. The day after Mardi Gras is Ash Wednesday, not one of the most joyous dates in the church calendar. You could have legit reasons for looking solemn!

It was horrible. How to react? What to do?
Two other posters have mentioned the reclaim the night demonstrations. I wasn't there, too far away and the mother of a young baby. Certainly supported them though.

A quote from an article by Poly Toynbee in Nov. 1977. (I took the Guardian then so probably read it when it was first published.)

The group of women who came to talk about Saturday's demonstration said that rape was only the extreme edge of a spectrum. One woman said, "It starts with the 'Hello darling' and wolf whistles and it goes right through to rape. It's exactly the name kind of sexism." Perhaps that's true.

I've never had any doubt that wolf whistles and provocative taunts in the street are intensely aggressive. I never know how to deal with it. Usually I just try to maintain an absurd sort of dignity and pretend I haven't heard. If I smile back, I feel angry, with myself inside and even more vulnerable, Perhaps it's silly to mind about it but now I come to think about it I find I do feel indignant that women walking along the street minding their own business should be teased and forced to respond."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/1977/nov/14/gender.uk

@Cattery

Loved it. I remember in the office where I worked (Central Government 1980s) being told to “just sit and look nice”

Fuck me. What has gone wrong with your life that you enjoyed being told to erase your personality?

Do any of you remember the 'nice legs, shame about the face' - I seem to remember it was a 'song'. Builders loved the 'compliment' followed by put down.

Never felt safe walking down the street from age 12. Male property to judge.

But high judgement made me feel good even when an adult male declared he wanted a torrid affair with a schoolgirl. I was miserable and attention (of the wrong sort) made me feel better. Maybe that's why I ended up in an abusive relationship.

As an adult female I can see it was wrong. So wrong.

If you don't judge your worth externally I guess you might see catcalling as insignificant but predatory men never are just harmless.