Did women used to enjoy being catcalled?

[Gofastboatsmojito]

Hi,

Filtering a recent discussion with my stepmum I just wanted to survey the 55+ year olds of mumsnet to check whether I'm way off.

She is absolutely insistent that in her youth women (most? all?) enjoyed being whistled or shouted appreciatively at when waking past a building site.

She thinks women's perception of this has changed in the last 20 years. All her friends enjoyed it in the 70s and 80s apparently.

For context she has been the subject of male violence including sexual violence and does not equate the two.

I find it hard to believe everyone enjoyed it and assume that women felt a lot less able to say they didn't like it due to fear of being called frigid, uptight etc.

I'm sure the answer might lie somewhere between the two extremes but just wondering what an AIBU poll might say.

V grateful if women of age 55+ only vote

YABU = in my youth the majority of women I knew considered a wolf whistle as a cheeky but welcome compliment

YANBU = I didn't enjoy this even in the 70s

Could anyone who has voted say how the voting is going so far?
I haven't voted as per OPs request for only women 55+ to vote, but I'd like to know.

You are not being unreasonable is ahead. Roughly 3:2 in favour.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a sudden surge in YABU now!

Thank you.
Very interesting thread.

I hated it. It started when I was nine years old. Not just catcalls, comments, lewd gestures and wolf-whistles but having my breasts, vulva and bottom groped in the street/playground/pubs etc. witnessing indecent exposure, sometimes whist in school uniform. Men and boys of all ages, including teachers and employers.

One of the most batshit comments on this thread. And there have been a few from the posters who enjoy this shit!

I used to enjoy the ego boost. It probably only really happened when I was a naughty teenager which meant the age gap between myself and the cat callers was quite ick if you think about it!

DM in her 80s thought it was genuinely compliementary in her 60s/ 70s early years. Early adulthood had a lot of social value and expectation to marry and start a family young. Working beyond that stage was about necessity and not a great reflection of social status.

DM holds a lot of internalised misogeny.
She's very critical over superficial beauty and what's "ladylike".

I'm in my 40s and haven't experienced much cat calling etc. I have a small build that isn't busty, don't wear make-up day to day and generally have quite a girly look rather than womanly (increasingly at a distance 😂). Bustier, blonder peers have experienced far more than me.
I haven't noticed becoming more invisible because I was never particularly "seen". Not just in a male gaze way, but generally- I used to have to defend my place in queues a lot. In some ways I am seen more as I mature.

Some months ago I was running speed intervals and got a comment along the lines of "looking strong" from an older man. That was quite a pleasant compliment because it was about what I was doing, posture and achievement; I was feeling strong. It felt it was about the running rather than being objectified.

Fortunately my running doesn't tend to attract many drive-by dickhead comments. So many women are put off running and public exercise to their detriment by that kind of oik.

Op, might be worth watching the following programmes ( if you can )
First episode of ' ashes to ashes ' with Phillip Glenister
An old film ' Rita Sue and Bob too' set up north in the 1970s.
Maybe an old carry on film.
It'll give you a 'snap shot ' at least of how women were regarded and treated at times back then.

I'm 57 and it absolutely never bothered me back in the day. As others have said it never ever felt predatory or threatening.

That was quite a pleasant compliment because it was about what I was doing, posture and achievement; I was feeling strong

A few years ago a bloke stopped me to say how cool i looked in my sunglasses 😀

i do look very cool in sunglasses

51 made me feel embarrassed and awkward.

Plus, "Benny Hill", which was a mainstream comedy, and which went out at about 8pm.

I'm 64 and another one who was an early developer so it started about 11 years old for me. I was horribly embarrassed because I hadn't come to terms with my changing body myself and having strange old men notice me was something I didn't know how to handle - it's a "social" situation that you don't get trained for. I just wanted to shrink back to being kid-sized again.

I remember about age 15 walking down a street wearing a T-shirt and dungarees, and two men appeared on either side of me. One pointed at my boob on his side and said, "Is that real?". What the fuck is a young girl supposed to say to that? I just silently turned and crossed the road, to their hysterical amusement.

Luckily I developed a "face", and the catcalling became "Cheer up love, it might never happen" to which a "fuck off" or two fingers seemed the best response.

Was so glad to reach the age of invisibility! So no, I never once took these attentions as a compliment, more of an unwelcome judgement from men with no right to do so.

DH was speaking to his Nan today and she said that vein wolf whistled was a compliment when she was young. She is nearly 90 but still all there, in fact they chat on face time every week!

47. I felt flattered but it didn't happen very often!

55. I was a young lesbian. Hated it and told men to fuck off, so of course got all the frigid / stuck up bitch / wouldn't fuck you anyway type comments. I sometimes wonder whether it was worse for many lesbians as we would often be out in all female couples or groups so not seen as a property of another man which would put the catcallers off.

Actually, I wouldn't even need to tell them to fuck off to get the frigid bitch type comments, ignoring them would result in this too.

61 hated it, turned me into a feminist who had to fight a fear of walking past groups of men, or .an in vans. Never flattering, always intimidating. Worst thing I saw was about 5 years ago when I was walking to station at 6.30 on a summer morning. Young woman runner on other side of road heading in same direction as me. Group of men coming towards us. They started making barking noises at her. I was angry enough to confront them and ask how they'd feel if someone did that to their wife or sister. They called me fucking bitch.

It depended. I'm 62 and when a whole building site/truckload of men whistled and hollered it was scary and meaningless. It was a display of machismo that was intended to impress their mates and actually nothing to do with me.

OTOH there were some occasions when just one man whistled or made a comment that really flattered me and made me feel good. In fact quite recently I stopped at a railway station to take a BeReal selfie (a SM app that requires you to take an authentic unfiltered selfie within 120 seconds of an alert. That selfie is then shared with selected contacts - it's the only way I ever know where adult DC are!). After taking it a passing station worker, a similar age to me, winked at me and said "looking good'. It seemed very sincere and made me smile but my milennial daughter was outraged when I told her about it.

@BeatrizBoniface saw your message to me much earlier. I feel moved at our long paths through this stuff. I'm thinking so much about it at the moment.
Just wanted to say hi, haven't read the rest of the thread although I can see you've commented more. 👋
Don't suppose you were in London back then by any chance? Late 60s, early 70s?

Yes, I was. We do seem to have moved along these tough paths. Like others, the experience of frequent male entitlement and harassment and constant social marginalization really turned me into a feminist.
The Reclaim the Night marches were something else. They helped raise my consciousness about why women had curfews because of male violence, and why I couldn't even get on the tube with an expectation of being left alone. Even on a low level. Just don't comment. Leave me be. Never mind the other stuff. 🌺

I think it is worse now for girls.
it use to be builders now it is groups of young men hanging around hostels in towns staring and being intimidating. It’s more threatening now.

@BeatrizBoniface I was on those marches. I wonder if we knew each other?

Hated it. These men were not of interest to me, usually unattractive and even if they were attractive, a guy that wolf whistles immediately becomes an unattractive ugg and dim to me. I only like or fancy well-spoken, polite, intelligent men.

It can be scary depending on circumstances too.

My daughter feels exactly the same.

I’m not that old but catcallers scare me because I had more men catcall me and ‘eye me up’ when I was 13-19 than when I’m in my late 20’s - and I know many other women have similar experiences with this.