To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

I'm a man, which is relevant here.

This is an interesting one. In terms of reactions rather than right or wrong.

I agree it's always men, there's no argument there. What's interesting is how using 'humans' in the OP invokes defensive reactions in some. And I agree with those reactions saying point the finger at men.

There are parallels however, even though they only apply in the part of the op about 'winding things up as a species'. If this was rephrased to specifically target men, I would instinctively feel mildly defensive as there's no reason to be considered culpable for what happened. Other men may feel the same.

So while I have no issue with blanket statements it's interesting to see how we all, men and women, react defensively when we feel falsely grouped among the accused

I wasn’t sneering at anyone. I put forward a suggestion. The poster was rude in their posts and making baseless accusations (silencing?) and quite frankly spoiling for a fight. There are survivors of male violence and sexual abuse on here too (how do you know I am not a victim) and their posts were disgustingly insensitive with their whataboutery. I won’t be a silent bystander about that either. Some people need to read the room. I don’t even need to explain myself to you.

Em no. Not a fan of men at the mo but there’s some good uns out there!

Fucking hell. It's disgusting. It's institutional with no institute necessary.

I mean, these guys were men but women have committed plenty of atrocities too. I don't think you can get away with othering them just because you're a woman.

FFS NOBODY IS DISPUTING THAT. Enough NAMALT.

Or very odd keep getting stds when she no longer slept with her husband. The whole story is very odd and disgusting.

Ah, there we are then. Othering.

Lucy Lethby ( aledgedly)
Myra Hindley
Maxime Carr etc
......not always men.

They just said on 5 news that there have been 3 female kenyan olympians in recent years who have been killed by a partner or ex. 😞

It's always men.

I'm sorry that upsets you. This is a discussion about yet more men drugging and raping a woman.

Male on female violence is the problem. Men are the problem.

I hold anyone who defends and justifies male violence with contempt.

Stop defending them, they've enough of their own to do that.

Come back to me when you find an example of dozens of women queueing up to violently sexually assault a drugged man, while even those women who don't participate manage to conveniently turn a blind eye and not report it to the police.

@marmaladeandpeanutbutter I am astounded that yet again on a thread about unfathomable levels of male depravity against a woman, that some women’s only response is to get in their hurt feelings on behalf of the ‘good’ men and try to put the blame on women.

How many of the men in court for raping this woman were also thought of as good men?

This woman and her children also thought the man was a good man. An upstanding man. A decent man. Look how wrong they were.

So you’ll have to excuse me for not being kind and daring to be angry at women who want to take the focus off the violence of men for the sake of their hurt feelings.

Fuck them and fuck their feelings. People who support male violence implicitly or explicitly do not deserve to feel comfortable expressing it on a thread like this.

If they can’t understand they are part of the problem and address it, then I hope they do stay under their sheltered rock with their NAMALT medal for company.

We read so many awful stories on MN from all over the world, but this one... it kinda stands out, doesn't it? It can't be put down to one crazed nutter. Just 'ordinary' guys. With all that that says. What a brave and courageous woman.

You may not be culpable. But men, as a sex, benefit from the patriarchy. You benefit from women being afraid to get an education, afraid to enter the workplace, afraid to say no, afraid to get a divorce, afraid to fight for custody. it makes life easier for you.

Women don't benefit from the patriarchy. This is why I am defensive about being told that rotten humans are responsible for the Taliban or this rape case or any of the daily atrocities against women. Not humans. Men.

Hensley and Carr were not the driving force of those crimes.

What about their fathers?

Why is it women who must take responsibility for men's actions?

The only ones I see that are getting a kicking are the ones furiously defending the men.

Can't be sure they are women though.

Maxine Carr isn't a very good example. She was away for the weekend when Ian Huntley killed the girls. She was being abused by Ian Huntley and he persuaded her to lie. Coercive control wasn't a crime then but it is now.

They will have had fathers too. , Something in most men’s nature isn’t right, they are like a subhuman species especially when having their sexual needs and desires met comes into play.

Women don't benefit from the patriarchy
It doesn't benefit women that there IS a patriarchy, but generally speaking it is often in the interests of a member of a subordinate group to align themselves with those who hold power.

Yes, I agree. But that is a more complex issue.

He was a stupid man too because he recorded all those rapes and stored them online

So start a thread of outrage about the horrific crimes against men committed by women?

This was a male attack, stop pretending otherwise.