To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

What mask slipped? The fact that I called out people justifying genocide?

Are you...are you feeling quite alright? You seem to be seeing things that haven't happened.

Perhaps you should scroll through entire thread pet. You seem to be seeing things that aren't there.

You love missing the point don't you?

Let's start with the basics. You ready?

The post was started about the rape of a woman by 70 men. Your first post and opening line was you being scared for your boys because women see all men as a threat. You then said women are as bad as men.

What was your expectations from those two sentences?

You then share you were raped and assaulted by two different men and bullied by three women, declaring women to still be worse then men and that bullying is more traumatic than rape.

Numerous people explained again, the thread was about 70 men raping 1 woman and it wasn't the place to be defending men.

You then go on to call rape centres a waste of time followed by how every angry women on here hate men and are shit feminists because they don't defend men when women are just as bad

And now this latest post where you continue to peddle the narrative of us hating men and offering no solutions (despite me posting solutions and you ignoring them but that's ok)

My particular favourite of yours is this one

We're shouted down and treated as if we're naive and traitors to women. What do you actually want? Down with men?

Yes I've shouted you down for attempting to repeatedly minimise rape on a thread where 70 men raped 1 woman, for minimising any abusive behaviour by men by saying "women are worst" by only showing concern that your sons will be lumped in with all men (ironic as that's the behaviour you're defending) and rather being proactive with your sons, you seem to peddle the "women are just as bad" narrative.

You also say that we couldn't possible be feminists because we aren't being nice to you and we aren't being kind or supportive.

None of that behaviour makes you anywhere near supportive of other women yet you're bent out of shape because it's been pointed out.

It's not my job as a woman to make another woman who defends male crime comfortable. It's not my job as a woman to minimise male crime, it's not my job as a woman to prop up and support the system that oppresses me.

I want women like you to stop minimising men's actions and pull them up on it. Make them accountable. Make all the men and boys in your life accountable. Make it normal for them to hold their male friends accountable. I also want women like you to stop holding other women accountable for men's actions and for thinking men need to be defended, especially on a male on female crime post.

So as you write this then, you do understand that it's unfair to blame mothers whilst excusing fathers? Because how does the dad being a useless spare part and not handing his son in make him less of an enabler than the mother?

Well you did you said bullying was the most traumatic thing. Does that not mean worse than rape?

Great summary and really well said! 👏👏👏

Maybe some of us just don't believe the narrative that most men are horrible monsters? I look at the men around me and I didn't see rapists at every turn. On the whole, I see genuinely good, honest decent men who are just as horrified at the France case as I am.

I don't come across women on a daily basis who feel as threatened by men as women seem to be on here. It's a strange real world/online world disparity and I question it.

Maybe some of us just don't believe the narrative that most men are horrible monsters?

Maybe because that's not what's been said at all. Do you generally struggle with comprehension?

@AngelicKaty yes!! I am being incredibly honest and trying to understand why many of us do this. I can see that my thinking sees the father as some useless bit part. It's like the stepfather abuse cases. I and many women I know get more enraged by the mothers for not protecting.

I believe alot of us do this. And I'm certainly no traditionalist in my thinking. I am not saying this is right. It is not a statement of fact or accuracy. None of my posts are. This is a discussion.

I'd love to analyse or view reliable stats or research that demonstrates ( if you actually can) which factors contributed to all these problems with male violence/ sexual assault/misogyny.
I imagine it's incredibly complex.

Seriously, "the entire thread" calling for the murder of ALL men? WHERE???

I haven't heard of the middle one. But like the others, I'm willing to bet she had an evil man behind her. Or had been abused by a man.

They really are at the heart of all of society's ills.

Tracey Connolly is Baby P's, Peter Connolly's mother.

The entire family, including , Connolly's mother were vile. Your attempt to excuse what she did to Peter and her other child is vile too.

You are being incredibly honest - for which I commend you - but sadly, your honesty confirms something I've only learnt in very recent years: that some women can be as misogynistic as some men. I genuinely never realised this before. 😟

I don't believe most men are horrible monsters, however I have to act as they are to keep myself safe.

I never exercise on the same route. I don't wear headphones when out alone and in quiet areas, I cross the road if I'm walking down the road on my own at night and a man is behind me. I don't wear heels to walk home in, I keep my keys in my hand, I tuck my hair down the back of my jacket, I leave my location on and send it someone when I get in a taxi, I sit near to other women on a train or bus, I avoid groups of men, especially drunk men and I never put myself in a position that males me uncomfortable.

If the men around you were horrified, what did they say when you told them women were just as bad?

Thank you. Fallen on deaf ears though!

Over years of reading threads on MN about male violence there are always posts telling us that women being "bitchy" or bullying are in fact worse than men raping, hitting, choking, killing. It is constant. Just as on this thread. I suspect if women were perfect human beings with no "bitchiness" or bullying we'd be told that knitting or reading or whatever we did was just as bad as having 70 men rape your wife.

Also the extrapolation of "god why are men like this" to "kill all men". Constant. It is just a playbook. Just like male violence and its acceptance in our societies is a playbook.

Tell you what though, I bet the average Afghanistani woman isn't complaining about women being bitchy to her. She isn't thinking that being called a woman in an abaya is the worst thing that ever happened to her. She has bigger issues to worry about. The only good thing about Afghanistan is we can see how it all plays out if men are left to do what they want.

Tracey Connelly is the mother of 'Baby P' Peter Connelly who she neglected and abused, and allowed to be abused by her boyfriend and his brother. All three were convicted of his killing, specifically "causing or allowing the death of a child".

"Femcel". To be fair, the mask wasn't on straight anyway but, for future reference, nobody says "femcel" outside the world of redpill men's rape rights. Also, nobody here called for mass murder of any description. Not many of us even support a legal death penalty, so you may as well give up yanking that chain.

You do seem to hate women even more than you imagine we hate men! Must be quite difficult to live with that much anger at so many people. Try a nice hot drink and a sitcom, perhaps? Peace.

What is wrong with asking why men are like this? Why is it so wrong to put that question out there?

All The women who somehow manage to avoid becoming rapists, murderers and family annhilators have been raised by women…

I agree. I've just finished watching "Sambre: Anatomy of a Crime" on BBC iPlayer. It's based on a true story of a rapist in France who was able to predate on local women and girls for 30 years, largely due to the absolute apathy and incompetence of the local police. It's brilliantly produced over six parts, but shows how misogynistic victim-blaming is hard-baked into French society. It's pretty much as depressing as this case.

@AngelicKaty possibly. Looking at the definition of misogyny, I'll concede that PART of me will default to prejudice against women at times. The other aspects of the definition of misogyny do not apply.

I believe mindset can always be challenged or shifted in open minded thinkers who are malleable like myself. This is the reason I participate in these discussions. I have shifted my viewpoints on a few topics after MN debate. This is also why I don't like seeing a pile on in response to some posters across the various MN topics.

That's true. On another thread, I admitted that as a child I found it easier to relate to males than females. And yes, I've been bullied by females. (Mainly at secondary school - and it did have a lasting effect.)

However, the biggest impact on my life was made by boys and men who have hurt me. (No, I'm not just talking about emotional damage.)

So yes - there's no comparison. Some women and girls can be awful - but in my life I've had more cause to be wary of boys and men.

I've learned the hard way - you can never let down your guard around the male sex, no matter your age.

@Pallisers I do question how many men would like the restriction of women as is the case in Afghanistan. Now we've progressed to restrictions on women speaking in public under Taliban rule. It scares me to think how many would go along with it.