To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

Also to add on to this, women too are subject to being brought up in abusive households and still do not commit crimes anywhere near the same level as men. The sisters of these men don't all commit abhorrent crimes, it's again shifting the blame on to anyone other than a man.

When people blame society and parenting, what exactly do you mean? Women live in this society and are experiencing the same parenting as these men do but the stats just aren't comparable.

I mean people trying to blame mothers, really??

A barrister drafts the plea in mitigation to try to get the most favourable sentence. So yes, on the defence team regardless of whether there is a trial or not.

Not one of them did.

Not one.

I kind of wish the human race would just go extinct. It rides on the back of women to keep it going. Or they should create artificial wombs

Latest prison service stats speak for themselves.

I believe a certain subset of men would happily create artificial wombs for their own use.

In serious crimes the accused is always brought to court to appear before a judge to be sentenced. What point are you making? Apart from the non point abour a distinction between a barrister and a solicitor?

Up until relatively recently solicitors didn't even have rights of audience in the higher criminal courts. They do now, but there's nothing odd about having the plea in mitigation entered by a barrister or advocate. For the simple reason they will have more experince.

More serious crimes which are defended use barristers or advocates rather than solicitors. If i were pleading guilty I'd want a barrister who has experience in the higher criminal courts to do my plea.

And joint enterprise means women involved in the crime can be convicted of the same offence

It is impossible for a woman to be convicted of rape unless a man does the raping. It is still a male crime.

@sunnydays1364 it's good to discuss the important role of mothers in raising men. I recall 2 recent programmes wherein my immediate reactions to the mothers of murderous abusive sons was ' you created that'. It's because of the behaviour of the mums in these cases. It was disgustingly enabling.

The dads were both involved but came across as completely useless. Where were they and what were they doing? I don't know. I was mostly triggered by the mums. 🤷‍♀️

@femfemlicious sadly there are men who
would use artificial wombs to create their own supply of victim.

There is not, nor will there be, a single innovation in technology that will not be used to facilitate the sickening acts of depraved men.

Right, ok then, so general consensus seems to be that all men, or most, are monsters. What shall we do then? Kill them all?

You all seem to hate men but offer no reasonable solutions? And when those of us who come along and say, you know what, most men are decent, my husband's a good man, my father's a good man, my sons are decent, we teach them to be good, respectful, honest, kind...
... we're shouted down and treated as if we're naive and traitors to women. What do you actually want? Down with men?!

This thread's fucking mad! As in insane, loopy, staggeringly stupid and plain old fuckwitted. (I mean several of the posts, not the entire thread.)

The crime of rape is committed with a penis under English law. Therefore a woman cannot commit it.

Women obviously can commit crimes without men's help, just not that one. JFC.

No. Rape is worse.

There's the risk of pregnancy

The risk of HIV or STDs.

The fact that the male has to be aroused.

Need I go on...

What is your point? It wasn't that long ago that solicitors didn't have rights of audience in the higher courts.

Even now there are more barristers whose main work is serious crime than there are solicitors.

I understand that women cannot commit rape under English law but that doesn't seem very 1st worldy, in many other countries rape is rape.

Not just English law pet. And I happen to be very glad that I live in a civilised first world country that considers that rape requires a penis.

Even if it was a crime for women to rape others with dildos - it just isn't going to happen.

Can we get back on track. It's a really important topic to discuss

In answer to those claiming that women commit these offences/are as bad as men and other diversionary DARVO nonsense that is totally refuted by official statistics.
Most of these are men, sadly a few women, plus some men who pretend/wish/think they are women.

She said one person found one kind of bullying worse for her than one particular rape. This is not the same as saying that in general the one crime is worse than the other. Ok, it was a remarkably unhelpful comment, but it didn't mean what you are saying it meant.

I vote for dropping it.

Clearly the problem is men's behaviour and all of society needs to be involved in changing it, for the foreseeable future anyway. Arguing over the extent to which it is only men is futile and irrelevant.

Their fathers have no input?

Civilised must be a foreign word to you

You know we can read your posts right?

You are a rape apologist. An MRA. You have no concept of civilisation. HTH

I think because the mum's are usually the primary caregivers, the spotlight will fall on them. That isn't always fair of course! My own mind falls to that default and I am always open to challenge on that.

In my own personal experience I see a mother that has enabled alot of poor male behaviour ( sibling) and zero accountability or challenge to very bad behaviour. No father around. This possibly informs my view.

I don't want down with men I want down with the crimes that are committed overwhelmingly by men.

Reasonable solutions? There isn't a one fits all solution that'll solve everything but I think if people, especially males, can recognise that it's a problem within their demographic I think that would go a long way to begin to make changes.

I further believe pornography plays a huge role in how men treat and view women and girls.

I think what is scary is how many of the men in this case were considered normal family men and 'decent' men. Its shocking the sheer number of men in the local area actually commited this crime, but then you must consider how many men would commit a crime like this given opportunity?