To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

Perhaps all of you arguing that women can never be guilty of rape/ oh yes, they can should start your own thread arguing about that as a general subject.

To be honest , both sides seem more keen on scoring points against the other and both are disrespectful of the astonishing bravery, courage and dignity of Gisèle Pélicot.

Correct. Penetration has to be with a penis. (UK)

Look at everyone arguing whether a woman 23 years ago was as guilty of rape as the man who actually did the raping; on a thread that was started to discuss 92 men raping a drugged woman.

@Hybridz do fathers not count as parents? Why is it a mother’s job only to stop her son from becoming a rapist or abuser? And a woman’s job in a patriarchal society that condones and in some cases admires violence and sexual assault, at that.

I don’t expect you actually care, this is just another post to blame women for the actions of men.

Rape apologists are consistently dull in their women blaming.

Women cannot be guilty of rape unless a man is present. I'm sorry that seems difficult for you to accept.

What is it that's wrong with you?

There is no exact comparable case therefore it never happened

Glad you agree and you accept you are wrong. Point proved.

Even if women can be prosecuted for raping men - it's not at all comparable. Women don't and wouldn't do this on the scale men do so it's a pointless argument.

But pleading guilty before trial means no trial so you don't need a Barrister for sentencing but the poster said she represented her as a Barrister and defended her.

Er you do. A barrister , advocate or a solicitor will enter a plea in mitigation.

I haven’t seen anyone blaming fathers? I actually saw another poster blaming mothers…

For a serious offence mitigation can lower a sentence so good legal counsel would be needed

Well it's not comparable because for a woman to be charged with rape, it has to be on joint enterprise with a man.

A man. Again.

To all of you arguing (barrister included), does it matter. Sexual assualt by penetration is the most dispicable physical violation of the human body. Man or woman.

The point of the thread was, are humans rotten? No, in general. Most are just like you and I.

Oh FFS. whether or not a Defendant pleads guilty, their legal team is still called "the defence team". That does not necessarily mean the team is "defending" the accused in the sense of saying she's not guilty.
There is always a Barrister (or a solicitor with higher rights of audience now) at sentencing in Crown Court. That barrister's job is usually to make a Plea in Mitigation to get the shortest sentence for her client.

If I was a man I'd beat the shit out of anyone who so much as looked at me a bit funny.
Well obviously I'd need to be a large & physically imposing man in order to do that and hopefully I wouldn't really . . . but surely a lot of it is that they are the bigger stronger ones?
If women were the bigger stronger ones we'd be kicking their arses . . . but then we'd be the men😶🤷🏼

It is appalling

Gaslighting at its finest. If you want to talk about women being perpetrators of sexual violence, please start your own thread. It’s completely derailed this thread and made it impossible to discuss the topic of male sexual violence. Really disrespectful to the victim in this case

Where has anyone said that ALL men are bad and they should all be locked up??? What has been said, entirely accurately, is: Not all men are rapists, but all rapists are men. Sorry to tire you with this inconvenient fact, but women do NOT rape.

You changed your mind on the bullying being worse then??

Yes it matters. I would guess the statistics for prosecutions for rape and sexual assault lean heavily towards male offenders. Sexual violence is almost always a male crime because it's about power and control.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this.

Some men who commit vile crimes are raised in loving families equally by a mother and father (or often spoilt and entitled).

Anecdotally (hoping there are studies somewhere to back this up) the majority of men who commit vile crimes were brought up in a violent and abusive household ruled by an abusive father. A man.

Agree with previous posters about being able to name the few vile women, but also feel the need to point out that there is almost always a coaccused man.

Rose and Fred West
Myra Hindley and Ian Brady

For the NAMALT brigade: you're quite right, not all men are like that. But, some men are and it's a significant number.

I don't know a single woman who hasn't been sexually harassed several times. The vast majority of women I know have been assaulted, in terms of being groped on tube, a bus, a train, in a lift, on a crowded pavement, in a busy club. And a large number of women I know have suffered more serious sexual assaults, from strangers or from people they know.

So there are plenty of men who behave like this, and the problem women have is that they have no idea which men are like this and which men aren't. So they have to live their whole lives defensively, wondering if the man walking down the street at the same time as them is following them or just on his way home; if the guy who smiles at them on the train and shifts over so that they can sit down has an ulterior motive.

And the men who aren't like that get offended when women are suspicious. When women are sick of the relentless stream of experiences of being predated on, whether seriously or 'trivially'...

She said she pleaded guilty before court so it wouldn't then go to trial? It would go to court for the Judge to confirm the plea then pass the sentence. There would be no defending as there is no trial and you wouldn't be required to have a Barrister, a Solicitor could do it.

Why are you even bothering to argue this point? It’s so obvious it doesn’t need to be said

Please can everyone stop filling up the thread with such pointlessness. You are derailing a thread about male sexual violence