To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

@Lizzie67384 I’ve just watched a clip
where a sex worker did a phone in with men. They all had the same attitude that sex workers are worthless whores who no man would want, for having so much sex.

When she asked them who was paying for the sex and what that meant about them, they each, without fail, lost the plot. Not one of them said the word men. Every single one of them said prostitution was a woman problem caused by women and resorted to death threats and name calling in the face of a repeated, calm question about who pays for sex.

Men are not ok.

Yes.
Yes they are. Although you’ll get people here saying it’s just men. And that if women ruled the world we’d have some kind of utopia. No, no we wouldn’t. Some of the cruelest murders and child abuse cases have been committed by mothers.

So yes they are. It takes work to keep up a civilised society.

How awful! And not surprising at all

Where did I say I hate all men?? I have a son? Do I hate him? 🤣

Men hate us. They hate us. They kill us and hurt us, and our children.

But it’s our hatred of them that is the problem?

When does a boy turn into a man that wants to do this?

I have sons I can’t imagine them being like this. Once upon a time all of these men were children.

There needs to be a national enquiry about male violence, recently the stuff that’s been coming out in the news is horrific and you can barely get your head around what you are reading before a new atrocity starts.

Ones I can think of that I have read in the last week just from memory, without looking on Google are;

The man who killed his 3 sons and then himself.
The Olympian who was set on fire.
The women and children who were killed in a house fire.

I’m sure there are loads more.

Can we say it's nearly always men?
It's overwhelmingly always men?
It's been mostly men in most cases for most of time?

What exactly are we allowed to say because I don't want to upset men or male apologists.

This.

Men. Men did this.

Women do NOT do this.

@FourEightFifteenSixteenTwentyThreeFortyTwo yup. If we awful, mean, angry bitches would just all be nice to each other, and uniformly perfect, then the men would be better.

They’d still rape and murder us, but we’d just accept it was our own fault and never be angry or use words that might upset someone’s son/brother/husband who wouldn’t rape or kill us but also would do fuck all to stop it.

It’s very simple, really.

I didn't say women went to war raping men. I said woman have raped.

I really don't want to spend a lot of time arguing about this. It's a fact but another fact is that men are more violent than women, which we all know.
I don't want a big argument about it. I just wanted to correct an inaccuracy.

So how do we keep ourselves as safe as we can if don't perceive all men as a danger?

I don't know which one will rape, kill or abuse me so I act like they all will and keep myself safe.

More safe than a man ever has to consider for himself.

I lost my shit at the school because during their tutor times, the girls were handed out leaflets with a list of 15 tips to keep themselves safe from unwanted. Male attention but nothing was given to the boys on how to act appropriately and respectfully around girls.

That's where the work needs to start, in the early years.

Until it does, men will always hold the power.

Women cannot rape, because women do not have a penis. Women can commit sexual assault but they physically cannot rape.

Ok, Ms Law 101. I made it up. Satisfied?

Okay, so some examples of women raping? That don’t include joint enterprise?

No thanks. I'm a retired barrister.

Well it isn’t true 🤣 just look up the definition of rape? Or look back at that other posters have posted? Someone posted the definition from the gov website

So you know what the definition is then?

From https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/rape-and-sexual-offences-chapter-7-key-legislation-and-offences

Rape (section 1)
Key points
Rape is a crime of basic intent, and drunkenness is not a defence.
Section 1 Rape involves penetration of the vagina, anus or mouth by a penis, therefore a woman can only commit this offence as an accomplice.
Rape is an indictable only offence and carries a maximum of life imprisonment
Charging practice
Prosecutors should specify in the indictment whether the vagina, anus or mouth was penetrated.
Where penetration of more than one orifice occurs, separate counts of rape should be preferred.
The Court of Appeal in R v K [2008] EWCA Crim 1923 held that where it is unclear whether penetration was of the vagina or of the anus, it is permissible to allege penetration of “the vagina or the anus”. The jury will be entitled to convict if they are sure that there was non-consensual penetration of one or the other by the defendant with his penis.

Rape requires a penis to penetrate the victim in England (and I think also Scotland). A woman can only aid and abet a man to commit rape on either a female person or a male one, she cannot rape herself.

@FourEightFifteenSixteenTwentyThreeFortyTwo so I raise questions. These are not statements whatsoever. I have had my viewpoints changed many a time on here through interesting debate and discussion. And I think that is incredibly valuable.

So I raise incredibly valid points for discussion. And you reply fuck off, men kill us. Yes I know men do shit like this! Is every single man going to kill women?! No.

I am asking a very genuine question in saying is it dangerous for us women to shout fuck off at everyone who does not stomp around like you are saying men kill us. I know full well that we as women are vulnerable as anything right now. I see that as clear as day thankyou. Let's be more intelligent about how we consider this problem.

So because someone doesn't minimise rape, doesn't apologise for male abusers and doesn't agree that women are as bad as men it means they hate men?

Do better.

Gemma Barker.

Joint enterprise. Read the rest of the thread for an example from 2001, The Guardian reports.

Women can only be prosecuted as an accomplice, the can never, in this country, be prosecuted for the crime of rape. Rape can only be commited by a man.