To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

Sorry but there’s no way I’d agree that being bullied is worse than being raped and I find it quite insulting that you’d argue that.

You are minimising the crime of rape and women’s experiences of this by entertaining the PP’s argument.

@Lizzie67384 do you feel this poster is not genuine and/or is possibly a man? It's a genuine question.

But why are you expecting me to be kind and compassionate? Because I’m a woman?

Yeah I think it’s a fake account - I’m a victim of rape and used to work for a rape crisis charity and I do not believe any victim of rape would say that bullying is worse than rape. I simply don’t believe it

We get it, bullying was worse than being raped and women are worse than men and we are all terrible women for questioning the poor men.

If I had a pound for everyone I've met online who fights for a cause they've no genuine experience of, I'd be a millionaire.

So how do we tackle that? Not by closing your eyes to the massive problem that is MVAGWAG and "not my Nigels" and then putting your fingers in your ears and chanting 'lalalala I can' t hear you'

And again: men (as a class) are dangerous to women (as a class) so until I know otherwise I'm always going to have nighlibg doubts when I meet a new man

Serious question: how have women raped?

I just find it odd that her first post was fear for her sons being considered rapists, then how bullies are worse than rapists and then how women are worse than men.

On a thread about a gang rape.

Why aren't women allowed to feel angry about this without other women frantically and furiously declaring women are just as bad and that it's not all men?

And the example that a woman said ‘you look like a man in a dress’ really seems…odd? Like so what? If someone said that to me I would find it funny.

You're probably the reason why many 'rape crisis centres' are not worth the money spent on them.

Jesus, you don't get to tell people how to feel, even if you think you're some kind of bizzare self-proclaimed 'expert'.

I fully expect women who's Nigel's are 'good solid and respectful men', would be floored with utter shock and disbelief if they were to discover what their lovely men get up to in secret.

Just look at the cohort of the men in this case mostly 'upstanding' citizens no doubt good husbands, fathers, brothers. Given that so many rapes and other assaults are recorded daily perpetuated by men- there will be many 'good men' who are participating in these vile acts or at the very least deeply contemptuous of women. Open your eyes ladies, statistically your Nigel is one of them.

And I say this as a mother of two adults sons.

@Lizzie67384 ok, based on that I won't debate that element of this.

I'm sorry for your awful experience. And everyone who has experienced this.

I do believe strongly that many women minimise this experience and that depends on various factors. E.g if it's non violent drunken rape for example. I came at it from this personal position.

Why aren’t rape crisis centres worth the money spent on them? Genuinely interested? Would you advocate for not rape charities then? Guessing so!!

And just to save you from searching my 'fake account'... I've previously posted about, let me see... Son's speech delay, son's autism, breastfeeding, stopping breastfeeding, not sure what else, if I find the relevant posts/groups I'll be sure to let you know... Maybe I'm just a genuine person with different experiences/opinions, can happen...

And yet I've just found this on the yougov website:

No, women cannot be charged with rape in the UK because the legal definition of rape requires penile penetration. However, women can be charged with other sexual offenses, such as:
Sexual coercion: Causing someone to engage in sexual activity without their consent
Sexual assault: Intentionally touching someone sexually without their consent
The UK government has no plans to change the legal definition of rape. However, the law does take sexual violence against men seriously, and forcing a man to have penetrative sex carries the same maximum sentence as rape.

So how could your client plead guilty to rape when, in the UK, she could never have been charged with it?

Apparently scientists have worked out how women can pro create without men. We can only produce other girls though- no boys. Not sure if it's true but imagine a world of only women and girls?!? We can entirely imagine a world of only men and boys - a worse less measured (!) version of what we already have. Female only- no idea!
Just know probably calmer, more supportive, more creative, happier, better!!!

But it is men who kill

It always men and it always HAS been men.

The whole it's society argument is bullshit too. It suggests that we should put some sort of blame or accountability on others and look beyond the group that perpetrates nearly all of these crimes. What society would suit these men and stop them committing crimes I wonder? Because for the past 2000 years however society has evolved and changed men are still assaulting, abusing and murdering women and children. It's not a society issue it's a MEN issue.

What's difficult about all this is not really knowing what's going through the heads of men, including men we know.

In another city, say the city you live in or let's say the village some of you live in; do you think people you know and love could answer a call like this and participate? If they felt they wouldn't get caught and victim's hubby gave the green light?

I’d love to know why you think rape charities aren’t worth the money that’s spent on them? Please enlighten me!

I fully expect women who's Nigel's are 'good solid and respectful men', would be floored with utter shock and disbelief if they were to discover what their lovely men get up to in secret.

I would be massively shocked if my Nigel turned out to be a bike creep. Because I have heard from people he works with that he goes in to bat for victims of bullying at work, got punched for telling football fans to stop harassing a young woman on a train, has asked a friend to explain the rape "joke" he just told because he didn't get it and must have missed the funny part etc.

He wasn't always like that, he has learned and grown - but he never was a sexist pig, or I'd never have gone out with him.

I'm sure he's not perfect though. And I do know he is still largely unaware of some of the things that go on in everyday situations women find themselves in.

@Lostboys16 by the same token who are you to come on a thread to language police other women’s anger because your personal feelings matter more than the collective feelings of revulsion women are feeling at yet another display of male savagery.

Who are you to blame your experiences on women not being nicer? To grandly state that if women were nicer to each other men would not do bad things to them.

On a thread sharing anger at an innocent woman being raped for 10 years by at least 70 men, you have made the thread about you. Decided it’s not feminist for people to disagree with you. Claimed more horror at language of women than acts of savagery by men.

I am sorry for what happened to you but being a victim does not excuse your misogyny. I don’t think you even realise how deeply ingrained in you it is.
Worry more what that says to your sons than the language women on here are using about rapists and abusers.

Joint enterprise. She assisted a man in raping another woman.

@AngelicKaty it's my understanding that a woman can be charged with rape only if assisting a penis i.e holding the woman down. The physical act can only be carried out by a male. I'm in Scotland though so it may be different elsewhere.