To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

Adding Emma Tustin to the list. But yes, men are statistically more likely, there's no denying this.

As mother of two boys, comments on here horrify me. Of the dozens of men I've been close to in my life, I can honestly say only 2-3 of them have been utterly vile.

Some girls/women have been utterly vile to me also.

I teach my boys to be respectful above all else.

Women are awful too, and to prove it we account for a whopping 4% of the prison population.

Well everyone (including me) is saying men are the problem, men carry out the behaviour men don't call other men out on the behaviour etc. chivalry is basic respect towards women, opening doors, pulling out chairs, holding the coat, the gentlemanly stuff that went out of fashion 20+ years ago with ladette culture and young men seem to have forgotten. Women are seen as pieces of meat now whereas previous generations saw women as a prize to be won. (Yes that was also in the time of marital rape and women were property) But we need a return to respecting women.

Knowing why does matter because unless we know why and stop it the boots are going to carry on going on heads.

And i was assaulted by a man who, everyone else would tell you is the consummate gentleman. Doesn't mean we can't put basic levels of respect into our boys and teach them good manners.

That's exactly what I thought..Poor woman.

There was a disgusting case of a perverted man who drugged teens boys to their death with a ''sleeping drug'' and had sex with them.

Stephen Port.

It seems it's a 'fetish'. There was a site this creep used called ''sleepyboys''.

Revolting.

They obviously like a completely passive almost dead partner.

The French Woman is extremely courageous to make herself known.

I hope the rapists and her disgusting husband get jail time.

Why do the comments horrify you?

@Meditationgame women aren't a fucking prize either. Bloody hell. I'm a human being, I deserve respect because of that. We can teach our children, boys included, to respect other people because of their humanity, not because they are a delightful prize for behaving nicely.

And actually all of those were heavily led by a man

Vile, to you.

I've had boyfriends and male friends (fine to me) who have gone on to be abusive to other women. Men who chose the women with the absent or bad fathers, the poor boundaries and fewer resources. I was just lucky. Just because a man is nice to you, doesn't mean he's nice. If you've know dozens of men, let's say 100, statistically at least one is a pedophile. Several are rapists, several have hit someone.

Of all the countless men who have harassed me in the street and personal life, I have been defended or helped by a man twice. Twice. One was a stranger and is now a friend. All these wonderful men who are lovely, where are they when men harass women and girls? I've got involved more than twice. Many times more.

So you agree with me? Statistically men are more likely to be the problem but some women can be awful? 4% of us apparently……

Well they might have left but they still didn’t report it. He was caught for a different crime.

It’s cases like these that make me wish the death penalty was still available.

It’s heartbreaking to read and the victim and her children are being incredibly brave, facing the perpetrators in court.

So you agree with me? Statistically men are more likely to be the problem but some women can be awful? 4% of us apparently……

IIRC there are no Cat A female prisons. None. In exceptional circumstances women can be held in male Cat A, but I don't know if any are. Probably single figures if you look at the FOI requests.

So no, not 4% of us.

Nah, men have always disliked women.

My husband works in a male dominated role (HGV driver) and says the misogynist comments he hears are common. The men will point women out on the street commenting on how fuckable they are and if they are fat etc.

I work in a female dominate role and we never do this. Its very sad.

I dislike men more the older I get.

Myra Hindley & rose west - both had male accomplices

Lucy letby - personally think she’s innocent but clearly that crime is not similar to 70 men raping an unconscious woman.

Also, you’ve named 3 women - can we hear a few more? Maybe look on your local newspaper’a site and list all the violent women’s crime compared to male’s ? Would be interesting to see the comparison

What comments have horrified you?

I've met quite a few horrible men whose mothers think they are amazing and probably respectable.

I took my 6 year old son to a rugby tournament last weekend; I heard a group of men talking amongst themselves and asking if the female ref was ‘up for a shag’ had ‘good tits’ and questioning if she was a lesbian or not, never heard any women asking similar questions of a male ref…

Oh and not to mention - whether she knew the rules of the game 🙄

I read a book last night at a friend's house called ''Strangeways' about a prison officer who had PTSD from decades of working in the Prison system.

At the beginning he worked in a place for mentally ill women who needed constant supervision.

He too found that men were FAR worse in what they did, to themselves and others.

In my life, there have been numerous incidences of innapropriate behaviour from MEN, never from women. A very small snapshot:

• my creepy stepdad who used to stare at me and make weird comments from when I was about 14
• The pervy art teacher at secondary school who invited another kid and I on a trip to a gallery one weekend, then took us back to his house with some random much younger guy, and showed us very explicit drawings of said guy. A group of us girls plucked up the courage to tell the (male) head how in appropriate his conduct was, but it was all minimised. Several years later, art teacher was arrested for having thousands of pictures of children…
• the 50 year old tutor at college who found it ok to have an affair with 19 year old me, having been with his wife over 25 years
• my first holiday overseas without my parents - had my drink spiked in a nightclub, and remember trying to barricade myself in a toilet cubicle, as numerous men pawed at me
• Holiday a year later - was in what I thought was a safe environment, a family hotel at around 7pm, met a few guys in there, had my drink spiked again, and woke up at around 3am, face down in the hotel lobby, aware of them touching me, but not a clue what else happened in the 8 or so hours I was out cold for
• Few years later, was an au pair in Italy, in the most charming tiny little village you could imagine, out with a friend for dinner, surrounded by families. Group of guys comes in, start chatting, then when we went outside to go home, they surround us, one picks me up and and tries to run off with me into the forest, god knows what he would have done if I hadn’t escaped.
• Few years after that, was followed by a transvestite on the way home from work on a dark night (it was 100% a man dressed up, no question). Managed to run off, reported it to the police. The next night, there were news reports of a girl being murdered by a transvestite less than a mile from where he followed me. That still makes me go cold when I think about it.

Those are the major ones, followed my numerous ‘low level’ incidents, which depressingly, are too many to list, the kind we’ve all faced throughout life. The MAN who gaslighted you. The MAN who catcalled you in the street on your way to school. The MAN who groped you on the nightclub dance floor. The MAN who ghosted you when online dating. And so on…

Just today, a friend of mine relayed how her own son physically assaulted her at the weekend, and told her that if she presses charges, he’ll tell everyone she abused him as a child.

Another friend told me yesterday about her BIL who has been put away for having over 5000 indecent images of children.

Numerous friends who have suffered major emotional and financial abuse by their MALE partners…

Yep, it’s not all men, but it’s a hell of a lot of them!!

It’s true that it’s MOSTLY men. It’s true that some men do this , maybe many, and some men do not. Thats it.

@marmaladeandpeanutbutter no that's not it. What it is, is far too many men, for far too long, for far too little justice.

Wtf I hope I'm misunderstanding this comment

Yes @tigerbear my list is similar. Street harassment started at 11 years old.

Are 11 year old boys in school uniform sexually harassed by groups of women in the street? Of course they fucking aren't.