To wonder (thinking about this awful French rape case) if humans are just rotten

[OptimismvsRealism]

It wasn't just the husband - at least 80 men went along with this. Guys with ordinary lives drawn out of nowhere.

I wonder if it would be better if we were to just wind things up as a species.

There is a reason why we have manners, social conventions, etiquette, etc etc. it’s to keep human nature in check. Without it it descends into Lord of the Flies.

Which I have I ouread my previous posts. That why I don't understand what the "fight" is about in my last post.

Men abuse.
Women abuse.
Men disproportionately abuse.

If we all agree then what is the to-ing and fro-ing about? Do you know? Because I don't.

I stand in awe of her strength in shining a light and not letting these men hide behind anonymity

Such a good visual and so true. I actually had a guy who thinks he’s a good guy (turns out he’s nott that good) ask “is it really that big a problem? As in really do you have to actively avoideme getting raped? Yes, yes we do.

Well people mentioning women abusers are only respondingto "always men." Really they mean " mostly men on a grand scale."

I live with a 'not my Nigel'. But it struck me recently... He looks like a hairier Mike Tyndall, very big, broken nose, shaved head. He runs with our dog in an area that is technically on lead. He's 'never been asked' to put the dog on lead. My elderly mum tried it, 3 people on one walk asked her. I never walk the dog there and run him in an off lead area.

When my mum told him he looked baffled. I had to point out that no one tells off a big bloke. Everyone tells off an older woman. Durr.

He benefits, but it's invisible.

YANBU. Men not people.
Not all men but enough.

I can tell you some things about Good Men.

Good men never respond to comments about the prevalence of male violence with "Not All Men Are Like That". They understand words, they understand logic; they know that many or most is not all.

Good men never take comments on the prevalence of male violence as attacks on their masculinity. Their masculinity is not contingent on being a violent male.

When women talk about male crimes against women, good men never assume this means the women hate men. They might, however, express surprise that more women don't hate men.

Good men never say "But women do it too". They know that a miniscule number of women might be ultra-violent, and that this is no argument against the avalanche of ultra-violent men.

When talking about crimes of sexual violence, good men know that these are overwhelmingly male crimes.

Good men don't make jokes about sexual violence. They criticise such jokes, the same as they criticise men making sexually degrading remarks about women. Their friendships are not contingent on being a sexual predator.

When considering the prevalence of male violence, good men are aware that its victims are most often men. They realise the problem is violent men, they don't blame women.

They see the ubiquity of violent men and sexual predators as a serious problem. They might not know what to do about it, but good men never assume it's just something we should all learn to live with.

Some good men and women can fight if necessary. A person's capacity for violence is not the problem, but good men are not aggressors.

Good men are rather thin on the ground.

I've no idea.

No one has ever denied that women commit crimes but that has no place on yet another post about male violence.

The reason I say it's always men is because over the last few years, everytime a woman has been raped, assaulted or murdered, it's nearly always been at the hands of a man.

I could read a headline about a woman dying and guess right that it was at the hands of man.

Even the msm when reporting minimise it and redress it as something different to avoid drawing attention to yet another male crime.

This is a really good illustration!

THIS

First rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do. Which of course is nonsense.

I had a male friend who thought alot of women were being hysterical over men and was really offended and would insist its not all men (ironically getting all wound up and angry and blaming me for it)

I broke it down for him and said there's 8 chocolate milkshakes in front of you, I've shit in 4 of them. How are you going to know which 4 I've shit in so you know not to drink them

He said he wouldn't risk and not to be so stupid so I then asked well how am I supposed to know which 4 men out of 8 are going to attack, assault, abuse or kill me?

Interesting Panorama on BBC iPlayer.

Summary is boys and men are multiple times more likely to see and be shown violent content on social media. Hovering on it even in disgust and shock, signals higher engagement as does posting negative comments about how bad the content is.

Thats “the algorithms” for you.

Not saying its the only reason but I bet it’s an increasing factor.

This why we have to instill in our boys the need to challenge unacceptable male behaviour and to be champions of equality.

My DS and his friends alienated one friend because of how he treated his GF. They spoke to him, he argued with them. They questioned his behaviour, he tried to justify it. Even his GF, who he had kept hostage in his house for a day, argued with them, even though she called my DS crying and hysterical about being locked in and with no car keys because he'd taken them. But they all stood fast. Told him it was unacceptable and if that's what he does and thinks is OK, he is no friend of theirs. Left his GF telling her to call them if she needed anything.

Yes let’s blame mothers & women in general for the behaviour of men eye roll I notice you don’t mention fathers in this influential “raising” you speak of. I find it almost impressive that misogyny is so ingrained in our society that a man can commit a horrific act & somewhere along the line we’ll always find a woman to blame instead.

Well said 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I think they reach a point of no return quite quickly after which any punishment only fuels their anger and their desire to violate and dominate.

@EmilyGilmoreCardiganEnergy I will agree that there are instances where you can see a mother's role in the creation of a beast. It is so much more complex than wonderful mum = wonderful son however

The negative examples I can think of include a few cases in the media wherein men have committed horrific appalling crimes against women and there is evidence/ examples within these cases ( documentaries) of their mothers being complete enablers and narcissistic sociopath creators. No accountability throughout their lives,can do no wrong, could beat someone to death and mummy would cover up for them.

I live in a narc family and my own mum continually enables bad behaviour from adult son. No accountability ever. It absolutely breeds disgusting men.

Do we need a return of chivalry, or are we still at the "I can open my own bloody door" stage of feminism?

Myra Hindley, Lucy Letby, Rose West.

Quite.

and they went in the first place so they aren’t exactly wonderful human beings either

definitely men. Look at all the depraved things that happen and all the wars we’ve had. All men

What on earth are you on about?

Read the thread.

There is a difference between old fashioned sexism and new fangled misogyny.

There were multiple rapists when people were opening doors for us. An elderly lady I know was raped by the 'nice' dad giving her a considerate lift home from babysitting in the 60s. I'm quite sure he opened her door.