About boyfriend visiting a quaker house?

[Celia24]

We've been together for a year. When we met and religion came up I told him I was atheist and asked his views he said he was agnostic but didn't actively believe or practice.

Last week, the topic came up again casually and he suggested he was spiritual although didn't fully commit to saying he believed in God. He also said he didn't really agree with atheism as it was too severe.

Then while in London this week he visited a quaker house in an amazing building he came across! He joked he didn't know they even still existed and mentioned 'you'd have no need for one as an atheist'.

I'll be honest, he has never told me if he was religious in any way and I feel a bit annoyed by this. I want to have children and I don't want to raise them in a faith because that isnt my belief though I respect others.

I'm pretty sure you're talking about the Friends Meeting House in Euston. It is a beautiful building and Quaker 'headquarters' I think.

My husband and I used to meet there in our student days (it's in the midst of UCL), as it's got a cracking cafe and a beautiful, peaceful internal courtyard. It's worth a visit for sure. Neither of us are religious.

Also if he picks any religion, the Quakers are one of the least offensive and most progressive ones out there. It sounds like you need to educate yourself, but also that you're not compatible with him if you're so furious about him entering a building with an interested and open mind.

Yes, people are starting to get overexcited, as often happens on the boards.

She has said a few times she would raise them open minded.

No atheism is not a belief, a faith - as the faithful would have it - is a belief in a higher power despite a lack of evidence. That is the basis of the Catholic mystery of faith, as far as I am aware (was raised a Catholic but admittedly only have a very surface understanding of the belief system).

Atheism looks at the overwhelming lack of evidence for any higher power and concludes that there is none. There is no belief system built around it, anymore than there is a belief system built around the lack of evidence for unicorns or absolutely anything else you can imagine.

There's this phenomenon (not just on MN) where a poster starts a thread about something contentious, then argues with themselves under a different user name. There's a name for it, which I can't recall. I did wonder if this is what is happening here. Not sure.

It's called sockpuppeting, and it's now no longer possible unless someone goes to the extremes of making another account. That's a nasty accusation.

@AnImaginaryCat I am definitely not arguing with myself under a different username...

I am sorry OP but you come over as more than a little close minded.

Whether your children have a faith or not is up to them, not you.

Plenty of atheists visit religious buildings of all types. They have historical and artistic significance.
He is not going to ‘catch’ religion from visiting any of them.
I feel your overreacting.

Which parts are a sound basis for behaviour? It being permissible to beat your slaves as long as they don't die on the first day? Genocide, all except the virgins who you can then rape? Child marriage? Stoning adulterers? Admittedly the Quakers do seem to be a bit nicer than many, but they still base their beliefs on the Bible. Or rather has its roots in Christianity.

Quakerism is about the most benign and tolerant form of religion you could hope to find.

You aren't made for each other. Please acknowledge this before you have children together.

Which is exactly what she said. She wants them free to make up their own minds without having a faith inposed on them from an early age.

Raising them with a faith would be just as closed-minded in your view then, which is potentially what her partner is edging owards?

Good grief OP, you are massively overthinking this 🤦‍♀️

You haven’t found another atheist? Really?! Where do you live? The majority of people I know are atheists. The U.K. is not a particularly religious country.

I think the OP needs challenging and to have a good think about what it is in religion she doesn't like and whether her response to that is actually just a mirror and not particularly different.

I agree that the OP needs a lot of time and reflection still to establish what is at the root of what she believes and why.

There's clearly 'something' unresolved there.

OPs earlier comments suggest a strong belief in a lack of something. Still a belief isn’t it?

Non practicing catholic here as well. Not trying to shame OP or convert or anything.

I would suggest you abandon atheism - your version of which sounds suspiciously like a particularly narrow-minded and dogmatic religion - and adopt apatheism. It is mostly harmless and boils down to "Is there a god/gods? Don't know, don't care."

If it was Friends' House, Euston that he visited then it's a very interesting place.

YABU on 2 fronts…
Firstly, assuming that visiting a building once makes you religious.
Secondly, having a problem with his religion either way. It’s controlling.

Admittedly the Quakers do seem to be a bit nicer than many, but they still base their beliefs on the Bible.

They're widely known for being involved in abolition of slavery for example. Less well known is that some were very active in slavery. There are various articles on Quakers in Lancaster for instance ... if you don't live in the area you'd probably be blissfully ignorant about this unsavoury piece of history.

but you don't have any beliefs....

I'd probably describe myself as agnostic. I like evidence for things, so tend to believe in what I can see, hear, physically feel etc.

That would rule out the existence of God, technically. But you can't prove a negative so just because there's no real evidence for one doesn't mean it's not a read thing. I just can't prove there is one.

Once, in Italy, we were walking around a beautiful Catholic church. Set in a mountain, with beautiful views. Bells ringing, people in there following their beliefs. It was so strong it could sway even the most hardened atheist into feeling like maybe there's greater forces at work.

He's never said he's religious but he's told you he's unsure about it (that's what agnostic means). He's explored one building and found it interesting. It doesn't mean he wants to raise children Quaker.

My DH grew up in a (non practicing) Catholic family. My family is split in that one half is CoE and the other is LDS, but my dad has no religious beliefs (mum still does) and my sister and I were raised to consider everything and choose for ourselves. That's also how we're raising DD, to be able to make decisions about her own beliefs herself. And we'll accept whatever they are.

You're only a year in. Kids are a while away. And however you choose to raise them, between you, doesn't mean he can't explore his own beliefs.

You come across as very strident in your belief. I wonder if you are very vocal about your atheism? Do you not tolerate the discussion of others beliefs and shut them down if they disagree with you?
I have a friend like that. She is lovely but there are a few random things she is very passionate about. If something comes up about one of her "things" I will mention it but also say something like "of course you will hate it and think it's all kind of wrong" just to acknowledge her strongly held belief but also to avoid another 5 minute lecture of why it was awful etc. My friend (I hope) takes it well. She laughs because she knows exactly what she is like.
Do you think your boyfriend may have been trying to avoid you reacting to him doing something connected to a religion? Trying to avoid a discussion about atheist beliefs by acknowledging that there would be nothing there for you? How would you have reacted to him going to a Quaker House if he hadn't made that remark?
Agnostics are still looking for their belief system and are not anti religion. If atheism is a deal breaker for you and you won't allow your partner/ children to explore the possibility of anything else then I would suggest that this relationship is not the one for you.

@RedToothBrush - yes, and I've suggested as much. But hopefully with a little bit more kindness and understanding than some (dont mean you) are showing on this thread.

Are you always so controlling?

Raising your children to be atheists is close minded though.

Just like it is saying that the Christian God is the only God.

You can bring them up in a religious/non- religious household, as many people do but only wanting nothing but atheism taught in the home and not even being allowed to explore or be interested in other religions, is absolutely close minded.

A grown adult went to visit a religious building and joked about OP being an atheist - which she is.

This has made OP assume he is judgemental of the way she has been raised and wondering whether she wants kids with him etc - this is a huge over reaction (especially as she knew he was agnostic) and it’s very telling how she’d feel about her kids taking an interest in a religion.