SAHP, money issues

[Belling112]

So I'm just wondering if I'm the one being unreasonable in this:

I gave up a job I loved to start a family with my husband. I have a DSC and we share 2 young DC. He pays for everything- rent bills, grocery shopping, and doesn't really consider me in discussion around family finances. He'll book a trip for us without first discussing it for example. Our rent is too high and we have a rubbish landlord so I've suggested relocating to a cheaper area. I also make suggestions re getting on property ladder, but nothing I say is really seriously considered (probably because I'm not working and not directly contributing to family finances).

So every month he sends me £250. Around half of this goes on my direct debits (professional fees which I want to keep paying since I do plan on returning to work eventually, my phone bill, Netflix). The other half I use for top up grocery shops, buying the odd toy for the babies, visiting cafes and museums with my DSC, public transport. I also spend on my DSC frequently, on stationery and school books. I see a private therapist occasionally. I don't buy clothes, rarely buy toiletries, have stopped gift giving for family and friends, and no longer take trains to catch up with old friends. My life since having kids is unrecognisable to the life I led before, but I've accepted this is the cost of motherhood.

I'm finding 250 just isn't enough, but my husband just tells me I need to budget better, and that it isn't always necessary to leave the house (and incur costs). It's a source of conflict for us every month when the money runs out. Yesterday I was at a discount supermarket buying some fresh fruit and snacks for the family, and my card got declined. All the children were with me. It was just awful. When I relayed the incident to my husband he just seemed unbothered and told me I needed to budget. But unless I stay at home, I'm not sure how I can make 250 last me a month.

I also must add that I am prepared to go back to work earlier than I had hoped initially, but my DC are too young to be eligible for free childcare and my DH refused to pay for childcare.

AIBU here? How do other SAHPs manage?

Actually she said she was left with very little in the case of her mother doing the childcare. Which tbh is the case for many parents with young children, especially as it sounds like OP has twins.

I admit I can't decide if this thread represents financial abuse or an appalling lack of communication issues between OP and her DH.

As has been pointed out, DH is not a huge earner if he's claiming child benefit. I suspect there isn't a great deal of surplus money.
When he tells OP not to buy treats, it might be worries about finance and not stinginess.
When he tells OP he won't pay for childcare, this might be because there is no money left (and I don't understand why OP couldn't pay for childcare out of her wage, unless she's still at the stage where working pays less than childcare, in which case her going back to work might be financially disastrous for the household).

You need to switch the CB to you whilst you aren't working for your NI contributions.

That is your first hill to die on even if he reduces how much he gives you by the same amount you need it in your name.

I would stop the top up shops tbh and get the DC to ask for all snacks/treats from him. Any trips that include DSC tell him you need X amount to take DSC with you else he'll have to take time off work to look after him.

Same with any toys or clothes the DC need.

You need to save him until you can get back to work.

I would actually go back to work even if it's cost neutral because he's abusing you and you need to have the option of leaving. It may redress the balance of power because he'll know it's easier for you to leave.

Don't hand a penny over to him if you work.

I admit I can't decide if this thread represents financial abuse or an appalling lack of communication issues between OP and her DH.

An interesting POV @redskydarknight - yes, it could be lack of communication. Although the OP says that when they went on holiday, she calculated costs and asked about them, and he shut her down. So she's tried to communicate.

I think I'm responding to the tone of OP's posts as much as the content of what she says - she seems so lost to herself - asking whether maybe she shouldn't have left the house? That sounds like someone so bullied that they have little sense of themselves.

And even if there's not a lot of money, it can still be abuse to control it without any reference to your partner, I'd have thought?

Since we got married, DH and I have had joint money. At first I earned more than him and then he did. I left to have my first child 20 years ago and was a SAHM for 5 years. Since then I've worked a very part time job and earn a minimal amount compared to DH's high earning salary.

Everything just goes in the one bank that we both have access to.

I am the one who sorts out the bills, knows what goes in and goes out every month and do the majority of the financial paperwork. After working everything out, I'll let DH know how things are going and how much spare cash we have to play with. We discuss big purchases but as there's full transparency, there's no need to discuss smaller purchases such as cafes, drinks with mates, clothes for kids.

You don't really know if you need to budget more as you don't know if he has less or more money than you. But as a partnership, even if money isn't in the same account, you should know how much is going in and out especially as you've left a well paid job to do all the childcare as he didn't want to pay.

You need a frank discussion and tbh, if he doesn't want to tell you about his finances, I'm not sure I could continue the relationship. It's financial abuse.

Absolutely, I totally agree that DH should be communicating clearly about family money with OP regardless. It just seems very odd that OP has got into a situation where she was working pre-children (who was paying for what then?), to one where she agreed to be a SAHM without any real idea of family finances and that she still doesn't and, it doesn't sound like she's tried to find out - just asked DH for more money.

I've been on MN long enough to have seen plenty of posts from women who've not really had much interest in family money as DH looked after it, being amazed when it's revealed that they are horribly in debt, for instance. Meantime the DH has, being trying to hold everything together, and hasn't been discussing it in some misguided view that they are trying to take stress of the OP's shoulders.

I do think there is an interpretation of OP's situation where DH intends her to spend the £250 just on herself. He's asked her not to use it on top up shops (and it sounds like top up shops are mostly treats?) and will provide money for the DC to do things if asked (yes, I agree OP shouldn't have to ask), and it's possible that 2 lots of childcare isn't financially viable for the family (as is the case for lots of parents with young children).

But, unless they actually talk, and talk properly, they, and most definitely MN posters, really won't know!!

Our finances were separate before we got married and I lived alone. I got married fairly rushed (because of issues with my parents), fell pregnant quickly. I worked PT during the period between getting married and shortly before giving birth, and did the weekly grocery shop, paid for stuff at home (furniture etc). I suffered with PND, had major problems feeding, and was generally miserable for months after giving birth. We'd always had in our minds that I'd be SAHM to save on childcare costs but also because I felt it was better for the kids for me to be around. I tried working when the babies were 2 months for a few weeks (mostly for my mental health and not finances), but as I said previously, I was pocketing very little, and it was logistically difficult to arrange for my mum who is elderly, and lives in another city, to come and babysit each time. The university kindly switched me to online lecturing which has been great but they've offered me very few hours, and it's not all year around- the income I make from this is negligible.

I have pushed to know more about his financial situation, moreso in recent months. He's not very forthcoming at all. He hinted that he might have 20-30k in savings but was very obscure about this. I don't think his earnings are very high, but I don't know for certain. My DSC was privately educated but DH has pulled him out of private school this year due to the government's VAT changes - this would suggest some disposable income? I'm not deliberately remaining in the dark about this. I'm good at managing money (without being miserly or stingy), I'd say perhaps better than him. I had 20k savings already when I was in my early 20s (no help from my parents, and I was living alone and independently), but my father's abuse of my mother has drained any savings I accumulated (I suppose looking back this was one of the reasons I got married and in a rush).

Whether or not the things I spend the 250 on are essential is debatable. I'm at home mostly and know my family's needs. I've lived in a way such that it's difficult to ask my DH 5x for sometime small for the babies and have to wait until he gets around to buying it- it's easier (and more dignified) to go ahead and buy it myself. I also challenge your assumption that my DH wants me to spend the 250 only on myself. There have been times where he's asked me to buy household supplies while I'm out, and not provided any extra money or compensated me when I've got home.

Have woken up feeling a little angry this morning. Will take the babies out without DSC I think- this might be the only way to ensure I don't spend any money besides for public transport. Just need a bit of fresh air, and a place to work a little on my laptop while the babies sleep.

Thank you again for you all your responses.

Do you think, when he says - op needs to pay childcare, he means whilst she pays this he would still continue to pay all other bills? Or is he expecting op to pay half bills and full childcare? Its just hard to know whats fair here as op hasnt shared what rough estimate his salary is.

I don't know the answer to this, and it's one reason I've been reluctant to go FT. I don't know if I'll be any better off (after contributing to household expenses), and I'll still be responsible for cooking, cleaning and all childcare. I've heard to many stories of women forced to share the burden of household expenses why still being responsible for running thr household with little or no suppose from their DPs.

I don’t know what you hope to get from this thread to be honest. You’ve had loads of messages saying the same thing and it doesn’t seem to have pushed up to sit down with your DH and not leave the conversation until you know everything that you need to know.
For some reason you went part time as soon as you got married without knowing any information on your husbands income and no access to a joint account or discussion as to how money and day to day spending would work. You then quit entirely when you had a baby, again it didn’t seem to bother you that you had no access to funds.

But op, your SAHM situation is to look after the children 6am-6pm. All other house work, child care outside of the hours inc bedtimes/bath times should be shared equally between you both.

are you saying he does literally nothing and you are expected to do every thing because your a sahp??

have you considered that you would be much better off going back to work (even part time) and leaving him? You would get top ups with UC towards childcare and he would have to pay maintenance. It doesn't sound like he is doing much anyways. It's just one person less to cook and clean for plus access to money.

Go back to work and secure your future.

What if you refuse to pay? Presumably all standing orders etc are in his name? Play him at his own game and refuse to disclose your salary, say you can afford childcare but nothing else and that unless he agrees to share everything, you will not be paying for anything else.
The thing is, you need to go back anyway. This is fucking you over big time, being out of work. This guy would not look after you if you split so you need to look out for yourself and get some financial independence back.
Yes, a lot of your salary will get eaten by childcare but it’s not forever and your kids will be in school before long. See it as a long term investment.

You're experiencing financial abuse. Your husband is restricting your finances whilst stopping you from working and earning, that isn't right.

When I was a SAHP for 3 years, we:

Worked out our bills, including living costs, necessary bills and kids expenditure. Husband paid it all. THEN we split what's left. He transferred me half and I spent that on what I wanted and he help his half for what he wanted.

No way is it fair that you're disadvantaged when you're providing the childcare that would otherwise cost. And you're missing out on pension payments.

I would sit down and have a hard think about how you've landed in this situation. It's not normal or fair.

Your husband doesn't sound kind.

@Belling112 but at least, you'd be employed and if he doesn't pull his weight, you have more options...you need to think through logically, assuming that you may end up co parenting after separation. Will that look better if you're jobless?

You do need help in real life to think all this through

I do wonder if the money isn't there. If the proposed VAT increases have meant his DC are pulled out of private school there isn't any wiggle room. I doubt there are savings. He probably cannot afford childcare. There may even be debt.

With your £250 stop buying anything for your DSC and try and squirrel a little away. Go back to work as soon as you can. I doubt he will be transparent about money so you need to earn.

if you do think of splitting up, just be mindful about why his ex, the mum of his child, doesn’t see her child. Be wary as he could be, he showing signs of, being a controlling arse. I doubt he would want three kids to look after but he might make things difficult wrt your pnd and raise concerns there. Start thinking about this now, think about your counselling sessions and any texts going forwards to H re how youre feeling etc. be careful how you word things

definitely get some solid advice from Womens Aid here.

go on entitled to website and see whats what

I am grateful for your responses and I apologise if it seems I'm not paying attention to what I'm being advised- this is not the case. There are things being suggested that are physically impossible. If I cannot pay for a train ticket to go to work, or pay the babysitter I'm not sure how I can start even thinking about working. After my DDs I have less than 120£ left. That's 30£ a week. I have no saving, no family besides my mum who is herself going through much hardship.

I've worked out how much government support I'd be entitled to as a single parent, and have even applied for social housing. Not because I'm planning to leave but just so I have options should I need to. But I have a DSC who has been abandoned once by his mother, who I care for immensely and who is very close to his siblings, to consider. I need to consider also the effect of an absent father on my own DC.

Neither option is easy or straightforward.

@Belling112 look, you are not a stupid woman. why is the 20-30k savings he supposedly has his money??? it is joint money. you need to actually see the accounts. can you get access to his laptop or computer on which he does his banking??? this is not a marriage in my eyes. another poster is quite correct in stating that you are there to provide free childcare for his child. all the while you have been struggling on £250 he has been spending thousand on his son's education!! he is not fair or nice and he should never expect you to stay in the house every day with children when you have no money and he is sitting on a nest egg! when your mother was going through abuse at the hand of her husband, how did that make your £20k vanish??? you need to start standing up for yourself!!!! if he wont give you access to funds then you need to think of yourself and your children, not his child. he is your partners child for him to care for. was the child already living with his father full time when you met and married? I dont think you will be much worse off financially if you left the matrimonial home, which you are actually entitled to half of as well as half of savings etc!!

I have pushed to know more about his financial situation, moreso in recent months. He's not very forthcoming at all. He hinted that he might have 20-30k in savings but was very obscure about this. I don't think his earnings are very high, but I don't know for certain.

OP, you’re clearly not stupid. I genuinely don’t understand this. No matter how rushed it was, how do you get married to someone without having access to this information, much less get pregnant and leave work? Why would you? Do you not think it’s basic stuff that you have a right to know?

You keep writing about things like they just happened or are happening to you, whilst you just sort of sit there and accept them. Why? ‘He’s not very forthcoming’ - so you demand to know. Find your anger. Insist on a conversation. This is your life, you are an adult with agency - please stop just letting things happen to you!

Also, you’ve been ignoring all the appeals to do this, but if you cannot do the above, then PLEASE ring Women’s Aid. Talk to them about this and come to grips with the numerous ways you’re being wronged.

I'm sure he could, but he's left op in sole charge of his dsc and two dc so if he starts raising concerns due to a split, that'll lack quite a bit of credibility.

I can see none of it is easy to resolve but you must see this relationship is toxic - the vast majority of us know how much our partners earn, all savings and debts, and we are not being kept out of work by a partner refusing to shoulder any childcare costs.

If I have any concerns about money we discuss it - your don't know basic facts about family money.

@Belling112 if he's just pulled DSC out of private, he's got £10k plus now free for helping support you getting back to work and paying his share of childcare.

Please talk to Women's aid.
You are being controlled and abused.

How would your husband manage if you leave with your two children?

You will be entitled to half of the marital savings.

You need advice.
He is keeping you poor deliberately.

This is coercive control.
You need professional advice.

This.

OP, I hate to break it to you, but they already have an absent father. Presence isn't just about being a warm body. It's about active support, material and emotional.

He won't even pay all the costs for HIS child let alone your shared two.

You'll get nowhere applying for social housing etc as you are, but you're a victim of domestic abuse and there might be additional help.

People aren't saying to up and leave NOW. But the situation is unsustainable. Even if you leave in maybe 2,3 years still better than putting up with it.

You may care for your step-child BTW but they're your husband's, not yours. I don't think you'll have any parental rights over them, but you can't sacrifice the well-being of yourself and your other two children for their sake.

As for the absent father - stack that up against three children seeing a woman not eating and just buying one kid a sandwich in a cafe and married to a dh who says she should've just stayed at home instead.

I agree get some professional help, you also need to break free.

Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Still unable to buy a sandwich or afford a train ticket?

Go back to work asap. He's controlling and abusive. What does he mean he won't pay for childcare? They are equally his kids so he'll have to. And don't make the mistake of seeing all of the childcare cost as something that should be paid from your salary. Childcare is as much his obligation to fund as yours. Get back to work and take back control. However,I would seriously be questioning my future with such a man.