To want to tell brother we didn't like his girlfriend

[wishuponascar]

My brother has recently introduced his girlfriend to us (his siblings). We come from a culture where introduction to family = marriage. I'd like to very quickly explain the culture as it is very different to dating in English culture. Essentially boy and girl meet and date without mentioning anything to their parents until they are ready to get married. Telling parents is pretty much the same seriousness as getting engaged to be married.

I understood that his girlfriend was feeling very nervous about meeting his siblings so I wanted to do my best to make her feel relaxed and welcome to the family. I (and my sister) met her for dinner with my brother and we were both taken aback by how rude she was. I feel a bit sad as before the dinner I wanted to just make sure she felt welcome and relaxed, and have been speaking to my parents to make sure they don't say anything to make my brother or her feel uncomfortable and make the process to getting married as easy as possible for them. But it really feels like the person my brother described versus the girl we met are worlds apart.

ANYWAY, before the dinner was organised and over the last few months my brother seems to have been a bit stressed eg. His girlfriend was pushing for him to tell his mum and she wanted to tell hers, but he would say he wasn't ready to. Eventually she told her mum and made him tell his and I suppose things really escalated (ie. Meeting siblings) quite quickly from there. For context they are both 25 and have been dating for 8 months. Usually marriage happens within a year of telling parents.

I really do feel like he's being pushed along on this as after he told me parents he asked me why there is now so much wedding chat (my parents are looking into how much they can spend and the girlfriend is suggesting different dates for them to get married). He has also been doing the very wrong thing of keeping his options open. Where my parents hadn't known about her up until recently, they would try and introduce him to single girls and he would be open to seeing their photos etc. This is another thing that makes me feel like he just isn't that committed to this girl. (Me and my sister did also tell him that it wasn't ok for him to be considering other people whilst his girlfriend was feeling like they were exclusive).

It is usually at this stage also that these types of relationships either work or don't as meeting families can be a deciding factor for the couple. Eg. the couple may feel like they don't fit in with either's family etc.

My sister and I are feeling a bit sad about what she is like, do we tell him? Or should it be something we never mention? Especially given I feel like his heart isn't that in it to begin with? Ultimately, if he does go through and get married, it's something we really don't want him to know as we want to keep the relationship as nice and peaceful as possible. However, she really is not anything like he's described to us and I just have a bad feeling about it all and in my heart if he is confused about it and being pushed into it, if he knows how she came across to us, perhaps he might end it?

I would 100% say something. My DH didn't in similar circumstances, his brother married the awful woman and now we are stuck with her in the family and DH really regrets not saying something when he had the chance. It might not have made a difference, but it might have done and our lives would be SO much better without her in it!

But does your BIL like her? You've not mentioned his feelings. I don't think you can intervene purely on the basis of you not liking her unless it meets a really high threshold where she's actually horrible.
I don't like my sister's OH, I think he's obnoxious and arrogant. But I would imagine that she (rightly!) wouldn't care that I don't like him. I'd only say something if I felt that he was cruel to her.

But the problem is not the girl, it is whether your brother is sure of his feelings and wants to marry.
As sisters, you should talk to him and ask him about his deep thoughts and feelings, but without trying to influence him. Just to check he is not feeling pushed.
Now, really, stay away from any criticism on the girl, who you just met for one dinner. You do not know her, or at least, this does not come across in the post.
There are some really lovely people out there that takes a few meetings to get to rub along easily. The girl's character will only be your issue if they marry and even then, the only thing you need to worry about is avoiding conflict with her and having a formal relationship. If she still comes across rudely, then try to gently show her how to be softer. We all have parts of ourself that needs improving. Plus some families/ circles finds rude things that are perfectly acceptable for others.

Rude how?

Why would the conversation be ‘we don’t like her’

Surely the conversation should be ‘you don’t seem to like her and are stringing her along and keeping your options open. Do you what this because if not shut it down now and stop messing her around’

I would say something. It sounds like it's a bit of a now or never moment. Different culture but my SIL met a man when she was young. Her parents encouraged the relationship but we could see he was bad news, red flags all over. Anyway, to keep the peace we kept quiet. Big mistake, 5 years later they broke up after two children, lots of cheating, arguments and toxicity, and the children haven't seen the dad since. SILs life was irreversibly changed for the worst.

Sometimes the kindest thing to do is tell the truth. If you don't, it's likely he'll go along with it thinking everyone likes her.

I would let my brother know of my concerns.

My friend married in haste. I told her of my concerns about her now STBXH. But they don’t listen.

its all messy now… with broken family for 2 beautiful little girls and STBXH thinking and acting 25 years old age… but really pushing 50! My friend is devastated. I think she better without him.. I’m sure with time she will see that!

I would just easing off meeting her and getting into conversation about marriage with the family. I hope that put him off… but all you can be is supportive in a neutral manner.

Not the same cultural context, but my BIL, after spending years living the bachelor life with loads of Tinder dates but no long term relationships, met and married someone pretty quickly. I think they had been together about a year when they got engaged, then they got married 8 months after that, pregnant on honeymoon and now have three kids.

His wife has turned out to be a not very nice person who has caused a major rift in the family.

It's not necessarily something the rest of us could or should have warned him about because she seemed nice enough at the beginning. She only revealed the full extent of her batshittery to the rest of us after they'd been married for a few years and had two kids already. But I'm sure that there would have been signs that he, as the person in a relationship with her, must have spotted and chose to ignore. And I'm almost certain that she put a lot of pressure on him about getting engaged and married within a certain timescale, and because he felt like he wanted to be at that stage in his life, perhaps he didn't listen to the early warning signs or give enough consideration to whether she was the right person to be doing those things with.

So with the benefit of my own experience, if you can see red flags, I would talk to him about them, before he's married and she's pregnant.

Exactly this.

My husband wishes that this sister had told him what she thought about his ex.

And his ex got pregnant because she stopped using contraception.

Honestly, I think you should mind your own business, he’s a grown man

The OP mentioned her culture because it's relevant to this situation.

Not everyone in the world perceives relationships in the same way.

The brother and his girlfriend can make a decision, yes - but clearly, things are different in this family set-up. The parents and the girl are looking at wedding dates already.

Do not tell him you don’t like the GF, however I would ask if he feels ready for marriage and go about it that way. Tell him you don’t like the GF might push him away and causes issues down the line if they do get married.

I would have a heart to heart with him now your concerns sensitively and if he reassures you that he is committed and that she is the one then I would never mention it again.

Agree with PPs: it’s irrelevant whether you and your sister like the girl or not. You’re not marrying her. You’ll only be sisters in law (and I come from a “marry the man, marry the family” culture). What if he were head over heels for this girl? Would you still tell him you don’t like her?

The more important concern is that you think she’s leading him down the garden path. Maybe you can remind him it’s still not too late, better to call it off now than consider divorce (especially if children involved). They’re young still. He especially has time. It would also be the better thing for her to not have a broken engagement behind her, I’m guessing.

Absolutely this.

If he's determined to marry her then what you say won't sway him but if he's unsure it might give him pause to reconsider.

You’ve not even said in what way she was rude

I would talk to him. Sounds like he might feel he's too far in to go back. It's sounds silly, but make sure he knows he's free to leave.

You tell him. You must. You have said that meeting the family is the decider in your culture. This only works if the family is honest.

You don't have to be rude about her, just tell him you are not seeing them as a couple for starters and escalate if you have to.

I wouldn’t say anything. He’s a big boy, he knows his own mind.

I’d potentially just let him know that you’re always there for him no matter what, then I’d leave it. He can make his own mind up in life. And it IS his life, not yours or your families. If he loves her, that’s his business.

@wishuponascar you clearly know your brother well so if your gut feeling is telling you that he isn't happy, then I'd speak to him on his own and check if he is ok.

I'd say you're worried that he didn't seem overly happy about having to introduce her to his family, and didn't seem to be that into her. Try and gauge his reaction and tread carefully!

Why is “culture” an excuse for controlling and coercive behaviour.

To be fair to him, if he hadn't told your parents that he was dating, he was probably just going along with them showing him photos of single girls because otherwise they'd want to know why he wasn't interested.
In what way was she rude?

Stop infantilizing your brother, he's a grown-up presumably capable of making his own decisions and not marrying a woman he doesn't want to.
How bizarre to be this entangled in each other's lives, I got immediate ick just reading this.

What did she do that was so rude? You say she was nervous so I doubt she’d be intentionally rude

A few points.

Yes this part of the culture is difficult and outdated, I was born into it but I didn't invent it, this is how it is. I have had my fair share of arguments and disputes about it about my own personal life (I married outside my culture and intend to raise my DC differently).

Brother's girlfriend has the same culture as my family. And perhaps is even more cultural given her parents were born in that country whereas my family have been in England for 3 generations now.

My brother's response to my parents when they show him info on other girls should have been he isn't interested. Instead, he would ask them every now and again if there was anyone they knew of or why their social circles haven't found anyone decent. My brother is a dick. As a brother he's been a great brother but as a romantic partner he sounds rubbish.

Someone asked what next or what happens if he sees a picture. It isn't just a picture. It looks a lot like what a dating profile in online dating would look like eg. The person's photo is there but also her hobbies, interests, where the person studied, what they do for work etc. And then if both parties like the profiles, they date.

I think the biggest question is, how was she rude. I have considered how it could have been nerves, but at the same time my gut tells me it wasn't.

• she knew my sister was trying to lose weight (something my brother had told her) and so when she ordered calamari she commented how "you won't drop the pounds if you eat fried food like that" and when we were talking about our hobbies she said because she gyms she knows what she's talking about when it came to weight loss so she brought it up again and it's best for my sister to avoid fried food.

-when I was saying life with a baby feels hard she said something like come on it's just one kid, it's not that hard, people do more with a lot more children.

• it felt like an interrogation: it really felt like question after question. Why aren't you working? Did I marry my husband because he could afford for me to be a housewife? What's my relationship like with my husband? What's my relationship like with my husband? What are my sister's career goals? Is she doing the exams she is doing to make more money?

-didnt say thank you for flowers or dinner.

I must have met about a dozen of my brother's girlfriends including the woman who is now his wife. Many of them were serious relationships so I went on to know the women quite well, spend a lot of time together - epecially at Christmas etc. It was very hard to really tell anything from the first meeting in terms of the kind of partner they would go on to be or even the kind of addition to the family.

In all honesty, I wasn't sure about his last girlfriend in the first few meetings. She's gone on to be his wife and over time I have realised...

a) she is one of the best people I think he has ever dated, in terms of her values and goodness
b) she is genuinely a lovely person who I find to be very funny now I understand her manner and humour a bit better
and
c) most importantly: I can see how incredibly happy and settled they are together, well suited and bringing the very best out of each other.

I couldn't tell any of that from the first meeting.

Give her time and space to know you all better, for you to know her better. Give your brother the space and respect to make his own choices and decisions.