To want to tell brother we didn't like his girlfriend

[wishuponascar]

My brother has recently introduced his girlfriend to us (his siblings). We come from a culture where introduction to family = marriage. I'd like to very quickly explain the culture as it is very different to dating in English culture. Essentially boy and girl meet and date without mentioning anything to their parents until they are ready to get married. Telling parents is pretty much the same seriousness as getting engaged to be married.

I understood that his girlfriend was feeling very nervous about meeting his siblings so I wanted to do my best to make her feel relaxed and welcome to the family. I (and my sister) met her for dinner with my brother and we were both taken aback by how rude she was. I feel a bit sad as before the dinner I wanted to just make sure she felt welcome and relaxed, and have been speaking to my parents to make sure they don't say anything to make my brother or her feel uncomfortable and make the process to getting married as easy as possible for them. But it really feels like the person my brother described versus the girl we met are worlds apart.

ANYWAY, before the dinner was organised and over the last few months my brother seems to have been a bit stressed eg. His girlfriend was pushing for him to tell his mum and she wanted to tell hers, but he would say he wasn't ready to. Eventually she told her mum and made him tell his and I suppose things really escalated (ie. Meeting siblings) quite quickly from there. For context they are both 25 and have been dating for 8 months. Usually marriage happens within a year of telling parents.

I really do feel like he's being pushed along on this as after he told me parents he asked me why there is now so much wedding chat (my parents are looking into how much they can spend and the girlfriend is suggesting different dates for them to get married). He has also been doing the very wrong thing of keeping his options open. Where my parents hadn't known about her up until recently, they would try and introduce him to single girls and he would be open to seeing their photos etc. This is another thing that makes me feel like he just isn't that committed to this girl. (Me and my sister did also tell him that it wasn't ok for him to be considering other people whilst his girlfriend was feeling like they were exclusive).

It is usually at this stage also that these types of relationships either work or don't as meeting families can be a deciding factor for the couple. Eg. the couple may feel like they don't fit in with either's family etc.

My sister and I are feeling a bit sad about what she is like, do we tell him? Or should it be something we never mention? Especially given I feel like his heart isn't that in it to begin with? Ultimately, if he does go through and get married, it's something we really don't want him to know as we want to keep the relationship as nice and peaceful as possible. However, she really is not anything like he's described to us and I just have a bad feeling about it all and in my heart if he is confused about it and being pushed into it, if he knows how she came across to us, perhaps he might end it?

I may be reaching here but maybe he actually was asking for your opinion in a very genuine way and you're saying 'she's lovely' may have made him doubt his own doubts. Of course 99% of people would have very politely said exactly as you did in the moment but no harm in you going back and least checking she is who he wants, completely and genuinely. If he is shaky or hesitant then I would very diplomatically share my concerns. The stakes are really fecking high!

Apologies... I've just read your subsequent posts.

I think lots of her comments could be taken as rude. From your first OP, though, it sounded like you had an issue with her having a 'lack of standards' - if anything they're incredibly high!

There's a chance she could be really good your brother. I'd be inclined to file this one under 'wait and see'...

I've met second generation people of Indian ethnicity who think anyone who finds them rude is racist. I dont think they have any real concept of how rude they are by British standards because it's actually rather difficult to find a way to tell them. Being raised in an Oxfordshire village doesnt necessarily mean she respects cultural differences. Although she may have learned to be more polite to those she knows dont share her culture but feel, she can and should be open with those she expects to do so.

It would actually be a kindness to point out to her that she may be perceived by those whose culture is different to be very rude.

Well it's kind of a case of "speak now or forever hold your peace".

If he's asking what you think of her and you're lying and saying she's lovely when that's not what you really think then you will have to suck it up once they're married.

Jesus, he is opening the door here - repeatedly - for you to tell him what you actually think and you keep not taking the opportunity. It sounds to me like he actively wants someone to say 'hang on a second here'. Why shouldn't that be you? I think it is very wet of you to be honest to be all 'she's lovely', ''that's normal' if you don't actually think that. I don't get it! My own sibling has 2 ended engagements and in both cases I gave her my honest opinion that neither were the right guy for her - though in those cases, they were actually lovely guys. I wouldn't hesitate at all in your case, bloody hell.

The times he has asked us before we met her, genuinely it all sounded fine. And I think now having met her, it puts things in context for me.

But actually also you've made a really good point. He is open to hearing what we say.

From what you wrote here, she seems to lack manners. Asking if your hair is always frizzy or onky after pregnancy is rude and nosey.

You brother sounds very immature, if he is interested in meeting girls through your parents, why is he with his girlfriend.

No, not all Indian people talk like this. Some Indian people do have very poor manners and are nosey and this 25 years old seems to be one of them. Saying this from my own experience of being an Indian.

Asking a potential sister in law if she always had frizzy hair is rude. It requires special kind of boldness to comment like this in the very first meeting.

There are Indians who are very polite and then those who talk like this. From my experience it is always a good idea to stay away from these unthoughtful, nosey types. OP's husband's financial status is none of this girl's business. And she should have checked with her boyfriend about what university he went to and how much he earns before deciding to meet his family.

I am an Indian and I think this person is rude. So OP is not wrong to feel a bit concerned. But at the end of the day, it's brother's choice. He himself seems to be immature too.

Also want to say not all Indian people are like that and many make a lot of efforts to integrate. But I agree there are still many who have a sense of superiority and entitlement, partly because some Indians tend to pamper their kids and would downplay any worngdoings by them. One example right now is the mother of a killer and rapist of a female doctor in India, calling him and herself a victim for her daughters distancing. So yes you cannot call them rude, they won't use it a moment to reflect, they would turn it around and blame you.

Then tell your patents to not put pressure on him to get married to her. Not sure if you are from an Indian background bit it sounded like. But even Indians in India don't ask their children to get married at 25 and not expect them to get married to their girlfriends soon after knowing about them. Tell your parents to develop some flexible attitude, your brother is way too young and immature for marriage.

You know she's decent - she doesn't just want to sleep around - she ways to marry her boyfriend. As time goes on he's more likely to end up with a girl that's been with other men - your parents won't be happy with that!

@TransformerZ Are you from 16th century India? Becaue Indians I know don't think like this. No parents ask how many men, women their adult child's partner has been with. There are plenty of Indins getting married in 30s. And just going to gym and looking good does not make a person good or superior partner.

I agree with the PP, it sounds like he's unsure and wants someone to tell him whether to listen to his doubts or not.

You should always listen to your doubts when deciding whether to marry someone. Especially when you're 25 and have all the time in the world to get it right.

Ok I am Indian. I even grew up there. She was rude! Who talks like that?
Only people who mention money and weight on their first meeting are either aunties from an older generation or someone truly obnoxious. I have hundreds of Indian friends (from India, not raised in Oxford) and this would be considered a red flag in a friend, let alone a partner.

A few other things though: if she was from India, the lack of thanking wouldn’t be a huge red flag per se. We don’t thank people in the same way. I learned to thank people when I went abroad but when Indian friends come for dinner say, they dont thank me afterwards in the same way non-Indian friends do. So that might be a missed cultural cue. The weight and the comment about kids was rude. Although I was cluleless about kids at 25.

I however assume that she was pushing for the introduction because she was under pressure from her parents. And she was trying to gauge how conservative you are- so she was trying to find out if you wanted to be a SAHM or you were forced to be one etc. Your brother needs to have an expectations chat. Does she plan on not working when she has kids? Are they going to live separately? Is there an expectation that the grand parents will provide childcare? As the son is it expected that your parents will live with them when old.

A lot of people here don't understand the culture. OP isn't imposing these rules on her brother, it's just how it is. You wouldn't introduce multiple boyfriends to your parents for example.

I think you need to say something OP. If it's moving too fast for your brother and he isn't sure, he'll be grateful to have some support on that front. It's not good for either of them to rush into a marriage he isn't ready for. And for the record, she absolutely was rude. Those aren't first time meeting questions.

Dressing up being controlling as 'culture' is wrong no matter how people want to twist it

Culture should never excuse peoples behaviour and the way they act and treat others, and especially treating people of other cultures as you are better than them

@Edingril

I think you're misguided to take this view.

The culture of all the people in this scenario has to be taken into consideration. It's essential.

I'm white British, but I respect other people's cultures. Why wouldn't I?

This whole thread is predicated on cultural norms which are different to my own, but that does not entitle me to call them controlling, just because they're not the way I'd do things.

That's a shame.

That's why the OP should've moved it to the South Asian board stating her religion - she would have got exact answers. Varied but none of this controlling nonsense.

Not Indian so this may not help, but I'd suggest you go to your parents and tell them you're not sure your brother is ready for marriage and could they speak to him.

Suggest that they need to tell him they love him, are proud of him, want him to be happy in his marriage and most importantly of all THERE IS NO RUSH to marry anyone nowadays.

That would perhaps take the pressure off. That could be what's pushing him into marriage.

Then you can speak to him about the woman and say why don't you wait a while, see how you get on, do the British thing of dating for a while (with or without a chaperone depending on how religious he/a girlfriend is/pretends to be). Make sure she's the one.

You said that she is only first generation born here so probably she is closer to that part of the culture and it is normal chat to her. I am married to a Greek man and I felt his family were very rude when I met them - asking lots of personal questions and commenting on my appearance. Now I realise that was their culture and they would expect me to do the same!

I used to work with a lovely afghani woman aged about 25. She was very sweet and had been in England since she was about 12. I had my hair cut and she told me she loved English old women's hair styles! (I was 57 and didn't realise I was an old woman)

Are you from Indian subcontinent? Sounds like you maybe. Honestly, don't say anything. She will remember it forevermore. Plus it sounds like your brother will go along with whatever so maybe it's better that she determines they are being married?

Oh you are indian, the girlfriend may just be expert at the upfront insults that are commonplace. I used to be told to my face that I had put on weight, that I looked old. Ugh

Condoms he provides every time! 😳😳

You don’t say why she was rude.

you also don’t say why you don’t like her?

you only met the girlfriend once, right? Is that enough to decide upon whether she matches the description, by your brother.

i also get the sense that you want to play the welcomed/ maternal lead. Maybe the girlfriend has more confidence or independence than his palatable for you, or your family.

from what you do say, sounds like your brother is more the problem, in terms of not being faithful to his girlfriend. He should not be getting married, if he wants to ‘keep his options open’.

If you tell your brother that you don’t like her, and they decide to marry anyway, then your words will stick and create a rift. Nobody wants to spend time with someone who doesn’t like them.

If you want to be involved, then I would say it’s wise to focus on your brother, over the girlfriend and cultural rules. 1) does he want to get married at 25? 2) does he want to marry his girlfriend?