To want to tell brother we didn't like his girlfriend

[wishuponascar]

My brother has recently introduced his girlfriend to us (his siblings). We come from a culture where introduction to family = marriage. I'd like to very quickly explain the culture as it is very different to dating in English culture. Essentially boy and girl meet and date without mentioning anything to their parents until they are ready to get married. Telling parents is pretty much the same seriousness as getting engaged to be married.

I understood that his girlfriend was feeling very nervous about meeting his siblings so I wanted to do my best to make her feel relaxed and welcome to the family. I (and my sister) met her for dinner with my brother and we were both taken aback by how rude she was. I feel a bit sad as before the dinner I wanted to just make sure she felt welcome and relaxed, and have been speaking to my parents to make sure they don't say anything to make my brother or her feel uncomfortable and make the process to getting married as easy as possible for them. But it really feels like the person my brother described versus the girl we met are worlds apart.

ANYWAY, before the dinner was organised and over the last few months my brother seems to have been a bit stressed eg. His girlfriend was pushing for him to tell his mum and she wanted to tell hers, but he would say he wasn't ready to. Eventually she told her mum and made him tell his and I suppose things really escalated (ie. Meeting siblings) quite quickly from there. For context they are both 25 and have been dating for 8 months. Usually marriage happens within a year of telling parents.

I really do feel like he's being pushed along on this as after he told me parents he asked me why there is now so much wedding chat (my parents are looking into how much they can spend and the girlfriend is suggesting different dates for them to get married). He has also been doing the very wrong thing of keeping his options open. Where my parents hadn't known about her up until recently, they would try and introduce him to single girls and he would be open to seeing their photos etc. This is another thing that makes me feel like he just isn't that committed to this girl. (Me and my sister did also tell him that it wasn't ok for him to be considering other people whilst his girlfriend was feeling like they were exclusive).

It is usually at this stage also that these types of relationships either work or don't as meeting families can be a deciding factor for the couple. Eg. the couple may feel like they don't fit in with either's family etc.

My sister and I are feeling a bit sad about what she is like, do we tell him? Or should it be something we never mention? Especially given I feel like his heart isn't that in it to begin with? Ultimately, if he does go through and get married, it's something we really don't want him to know as we want to keep the relationship as nice and peaceful as possible. However, she really is not anything like he's described to us and I just have a bad feeling about it all and in my heart if he is confused about it and being pushed into it, if he knows how she came across to us, perhaps he might end it?

My personal opinion - 25 years old is too young to be married.

My opinion with my Indian, Sikh, traditional head on - not to offend others but only talking about the cultural aspect and what people want for their kids ...

Sometimes people don't find better partners as they age.
Indian girls are usually better than Indian boys - so without looking at their individual academic and career prospects it's hard to say who the better person is in terms of academia and career. You will know this though.
Is she better looking than him? If so, let them be.
She won't get fat as she's into the gym.
You know she's decent - she doesn't just want to sleep around - she ways to marry her boyfriend. As time goes on he's more likely to end up with a girl that's been with other men - your parents won't be happy with that!
The above will offend some but I'm talking from the cultural aspect only - what people from a traditional background value. Looks, smarts, prospects, respect for ones own image which reflects the image of the in-laws.

Does she drink alcohol?

What religion are you from?
If you really what to throw a spanner in the works, get a Pundit Ji to look at their birth charts and hope their astrological charts don't match!

If you think that your brother isn't happy with marrying her whats wrong with speaking to him about it? If you think he's giving off signs that say that maybe it would be nice to know he's supported in what ever he chooses? Or would there be a world where you didn't support him?

Hmmm the things she said sound very much like usual topics for Indians. I have to constantly remind myself not to be offended when I'm in India and my friends are commenting blithley on everyone's weight. If I am lucky I get called 'healthy' instead of 'fat' as a nod to politeness hahaha. If you say her family has been in the UK for less time then perhaps she has picked this up from them? Although I might argue that anyone who has lived in the UK should know such comments are rude.

People are more open with their own people. She sees you as her own.
Anyway, being fat isn't good, maybe the advice will be handy. She could be a free personal trainer.

This is insanely rude! Wow
Ignore other posters, of course it’s rude to comment on other people’s food choices in the way she did.

I’d talk to you brother but frame it like, are you sure you’re happy and ready for marriage? And then let him know you weren’t sure on the first meeting but you’re open to give her the benefit of the doubt if he loves her.

Don’t be insane, she’s literally just met them and they weren’t talking about weightloss. It’s socially clumsy at the very least but really is actually incredibly rude.

The astrological chart thing.
I think there's something in it.
I'm half Indian, Sikh but have a lot of respect for all Bakhti faiths - I had a chart done for me and my partner and he is Catholic and it was spot on. Some things only transpired over the course of the marriage.

Everyone I know who has gone against the chart findings if it is unfavourable are in crap marriages.

So if you believe in this - might be worth doing for peace of mind.

Agree with other posters that saying you don't like her won't go down well, but asking him if he is ready for marriage/if he is sure he is choosing this for himself is appropriate. If he was keeping options open and hoping your parents find someone better while dating this girl, it sounds like he is not particularly committed to her. Whether she's nice or not, is it fair to her to end up stuck in a marriage with him if he's only going along now to keep the peace (and is still looking around for alternative options)?

Was she actually rude or was it that she doesn't fall into the behaviour that the rigid constraints of your culture insist upon otherwise your some kind of infidel?

In Indian circles it's normal.
If an Indian woman 'dissed' my looks or clothes, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. Take note instead.

Definitely tell him - you are part of a culture that is group-based and you will be spending a lot of time with the GF when she becomes your SIL. For the sake of family harmony, you have to at least mention it. Don't ignore your gut instinct that this girl doesn't seem like a good person. If she's like this at the first meeting when people usually try to make a good impression, imagine how she will be once she's fully comfortable with you.

You are third generation here, she is not. Personally I find people of recent Indian origin can be what I see as incredibly rude, in particular the assumption that as guests they can do what they please and you will give them the best of everything. So while I think many would still say thanks it's not as rude in Indian culture as in British culture. She would also expect to be married younger than British people. Your should still know this and could explain to her that she may be perceived as rude by those who are adopting the culture of what is now their home.

She wants your brother to commit, he sounds dubious. Your families may not be a good fit but she may just need to know how she is coming across. If he isnt ready to commit he shouldnt be messing her around.

The way you speak about her, are you sure it's not you who's 'vile'?

I hear what you’re saying, I can imagine a older woman saying this to a younger woman but… to say this to strangers you are trying to impress is wild.
Also she grew up in the UK and will be well aware you don’t comment on other young women’s weight, hair frizz levels or outfit negatively.
It’s rude in the context, and to have made a number of negative comments…. She’s socially awkward/inept at the very least.

The last couple of paragraphs of @pikkumyy77 wrote are exactly what I was going to write. He needs to hit the brakes, for both their sakes, whether you and his other siblings like her or not. Marriage shouldn't be a case of 'well she wanted to.' I've had two close family members in this position and it didn't end well for anyone. In one instance it was glaringly obvious that she had an agenda, and the match was a mistake - but by the point we met her she was pregnant, it was deemed 'too late' to say anything and it turned into one mess. Bro needs to at least know no-one will judge him if he decides to bail, before he gets in any deeper. Quite honestly if I could go back in time I'd have said what I thought and taken the risk of a fall-out. Don't say you don't like her, that's not massively relevant. Why not say they don't seem comfortable or well-suited or whatever. If he goes and tells her and they want to fall out with you then that's on them.

When you live in a hybrid cultural environment - your family’s culture or origin and the culture of the country your family have moved to - there are no hard and fast rules. If you are worried, tell him that. Tell him that the talk of wedding chat is because of cultural expectations of the older generation, but it is important he doesn’t feel pushed into marriage before he is ready or sure that this is his life partner. This way, you are a supportive sister. Telling him you don’t like his girlfriend may alienate you and have the opposite effect.

I would be mortified if I met a future SIL and she said those things!! Basically criticising your clothes, fat shaming your DSIS and suggesting that you were marrying for money.

I would feedback to your brother that you were taken aback by these things,that her comments and questions made you uncomfortable, rather than feedback about her. Then let him crack on with things.

He is an investment banker and she works for an NHS accounts department. We are Asian, yes. Not sikh, and don't drink.

Can we all not be surprised that there is more than one culture in the world?

True, but we have to choose.

If we think that the cultural factors are the major issue here, we (as non-members of the culture in question, which I assume most people are) should probably stay out of it.

But if we don't think that the cultural factors are the major issue, then we are inevitably going to be bringing our own cultural perspective, which for the majority here, as we're seeing, is quite likely to be "FFS they're both adults".

If OP lives in the UK or another country where her family's culture is a minority, we can then get into discussions about the extent to which a culture "should" adapt to that of the majority. This might not end well.

OP has asked the question, presumably knowing that most of the people who read the thread will (a) not be able to work out exactly which culture she means (I think there are probably quite a few cultures when "meeting parents = marriage", so then we can also have the question of how close OP's culture is to another with the same rule), and (b) not have a lot of experience with that culture. At that point I think it's not unreasonable for people to respond from their own perspective, because to learn all of the ins and outs (it will probably be a bit more complex than simply "meeting parents = marriage").

Thank you everyone for your responses.
I will not say anything about how I feel towards her as I agree, I don't want to alienate him or if he does choose to marry this girl, I don't want her to feel like there's any ill feelings on my part.
I'll ask, in private, how he is feeling given he has expressed things indicating he isn't as committed as she is. And go from there.

In Indian circles it's normal.

Oh, my. The soft bigotry of low expectations.

What do either of them bring to the table?

From the way you talk about your brother I can't imagine why she would be so desperate to marry him!

Perhaps for her upbringing she wasn't as rude as you think?

If he doesn't want to marry her though he needs to stop stringing her along.

But you said she was from another country. So her attitudes will be different from yours if you are third generation in the UK.

No, she's born and raised in a village in Oxford. Her parents were born in India.

Living in Britain does not mean she has been exposed to a lot of British culture. Some Indian people still live surrounded by other families of Indian origin and go to schools where many pupils are of Indian heritage. They may spend a lot of time at the gurdwara or mandir.

Obviously many British people dont realise how Indian culture persists in parts of the country, I was pretty shocked when I met people of Indian ethnicity who still lived like this.

OP your potential sil has probably been raised differently and didnt realise your family are more assimilated. Although for what it's worth in the part of Britain where I was raised not letting a girlfriend of 8 months meet your parents would be considered pretty rude and would have the parents asking why their child was ashamed of their partner.