To want to tell brother we didn't like his girlfriend

[wishuponascar]

My brother has recently introduced his girlfriend to us (his siblings). We come from a culture where introduction to family = marriage. I'd like to very quickly explain the culture as it is very different to dating in English culture. Essentially boy and girl meet and date without mentioning anything to their parents until they are ready to get married. Telling parents is pretty much the same seriousness as getting engaged to be married.

I understood that his girlfriend was feeling very nervous about meeting his siblings so I wanted to do my best to make her feel relaxed and welcome to the family. I (and my sister) met her for dinner with my brother and we were both taken aback by how rude she was. I feel a bit sad as before the dinner I wanted to just make sure she felt welcome and relaxed, and have been speaking to my parents to make sure they don't say anything to make my brother or her feel uncomfortable and make the process to getting married as easy as possible for them. But it really feels like the person my brother described versus the girl we met are worlds apart.

ANYWAY, before the dinner was organised and over the last few months my brother seems to have been a bit stressed eg. His girlfriend was pushing for him to tell his mum and she wanted to tell hers, but he would say he wasn't ready to. Eventually she told her mum and made him tell his and I suppose things really escalated (ie. Meeting siblings) quite quickly from there. For context they are both 25 and have been dating for 8 months. Usually marriage happens within a year of telling parents.

I really do feel like he's being pushed along on this as after he told me parents he asked me why there is now so much wedding chat (my parents are looking into how much they can spend and the girlfriend is suggesting different dates for them to get married). He has also been doing the very wrong thing of keeping his options open. Where my parents hadn't known about her up until recently, they would try and introduce him to single girls and he would be open to seeing their photos etc. This is another thing that makes me feel like he just isn't that committed to this girl. (Me and my sister did also tell him that it wasn't ok for him to be considering other people whilst his girlfriend was feeling like they were exclusive).

It is usually at this stage also that these types of relationships either work or don't as meeting families can be a deciding factor for the couple. Eg. the couple may feel like they don't fit in with either's family etc.

My sister and I are feeling a bit sad about what she is like, do we tell him? Or should it be something we never mention? Especially given I feel like his heart isn't that in it to begin with? Ultimately, if he does go through and get married, it's something we really don't want him to know as we want to keep the relationship as nice and peaceful as possible. However, she really is not anything like he's described to us and I just have a bad feeling about it all and in my heart if he is confused about it and being pushed into it, if he knows how she came across to us, perhaps he might end it?

I have a suspicion he didn't want to introduce her because he just wasn't that committed to her.

Apologies, I misread what you said.

But that is still a big cultural difference.

Yes, it looks like she socialises with other Asian people who ask direct questions like she did and which seem rude to people who are Westernised like you and your sister.

But I would really ask your brother if he is sure that she is the one and to stop it now if he is not sure.

It looks like she is pressurising him to get married and he is just going along with it for a quiet life.

The part where you said you were speaking to your parents to make sure they didn't say anything to make her feel uncomfortable stuck out to me. Why would they need telling? Why would anyone want to make the poor girl feel uncomfortable? I feel desperately sorry for her and for your brother. He's not to blame for looking at the photos. He was probably under pressure to make sure she was 'right' for all of your expectations before telling you. You can't expect him to tell you straight away, in an early relationships.

Culture is no excuse to be horrible and judgemental about this girl. A relationship is between the two people in the relationship. No one else. Their relationship isn't there to validate your culture. This sounds toxic and I can't imagine how overbearing you'll all be if she has a baby. I hope she runs for the hills.

I wondered this too. The pressure sounds immense. Poor girl.

Maybe her rudeness is because she’s trying to assert her position in the family hierarchy - given she will be the son’s wife & you are merely sisters? Is this a likely thing to happen in your culture?

STAY OUT OF IT!. He won't thank you either way so best just leave it alone.

@wishuponascar Please tell your brother what you all thought about his girlfriend. If she's rude to you now, just imagine what she'll be like after the wedding. And if she's commenting now - in the first meeting - how fat and frizzy-haired you all are, then for her own safety, there shouldn't be a second meeting.
She had her chance to make a good impression, and blew it.

I'm interested to know how exactly she's rude? You don't explain but I suspect these are perhaps just cultural differences - or rather, that you observe a certain culture and she doesn't (which doesn't make her a bad person). So we really need to know more about this.

Aside from that, though, you do sound far too invested in your brother's relationship. It's fine to want to ask how he's feeling, as a concerned sibling, but that's where your input needs to end.
Do NOT under any circumstances say you do not like her. He does and that's what matters. Your opinion, while valid, is also largely irrelevant.

I've always been different' one to my ILs. My husband said that's precisely why he married me!

Examples of how she was rude is described in my follow up posts. I feel like it's rude across cultures.

I'm interested to know how exactly she's rude? You don't explain but I suspect these are perhaps just cultural differences - or rather, that you observe a certain culture and she doesn't (which doesn't make her a bad person). So we really need to know more about this

@Jumpingthruhoops read all the OP's posts.
She has explained at length why the girl was rude.

You don't have to like her, she wont be your wife.

Why do people think they get ANY say in other peoples love life... the only other persons love life that you should be interested in you your romantic partners, anybody else's is off limits to you and your your business.

You're right.
And FWIW I agree that she was rude.

But there seems to be a culture clash within the culture going on here. She's very Indian in what she says, if you like, and you're less Indian in what you expect.

You're from the same culture, but it sounds like that culture has been diluted in your generation, and not diluted so much in hers.

I’m unsure which culture you’re from, although I have several and some more traditional (albeit the people in my social circles aren’t very ‘traditional’ regarding this type of marriage processes, it was more prevalent a few generations ago, but still is in some places though - I just don’t get involved !).

One thing I think you haven’t mentioned, or I missed, is the views on sex before marriage : I’m wondering about this as this is usually a huge factor (and you could include UK people from various religions or cultures in this too) :
So, if you don’t mind me asking, what is the view on this ?
As I feel it changes a lot really, as in might it be why she is pushing for marriage ?

She sounds awful

Did she go to private school by any chance

The main issue here, isn’t that she was rude though.

It’s that you feel she is pushing for engagement and marriage and he isn’t that fussed about marrying her. But looks like he will, even though he isn’t that fussed about marrying her.

That should be the start off point of the conversation. Then see how it goes. He may think she is rude. Or may not. But if he doesn’t want to marry her, it doesn’t really matter whether she is rude or not. He shouldn’t be taking steps forward that would lead her to believe they are getting married.

Fwiw, my Dad is Indian and came here as a small child (mum wasn’t) and his girlfriend is Indian and was brought up there. We don’t have anything to do with Dads family. So when I met his girlfriend I found her very blunt and a bit rude. Especially, compared to what I was used to. Even growing up with my Dad, who does seem quite. Blunt to a lot of people. She is actually lovely, just very blunt. Now I know her, I know she isn’t meaning to offend. She says things that are factually correct, but I wouldn’t say them. I can imagine her commenting on fried food and she would say it whether she knew you well or not.

But, actually, I have come to really like that about her.

This is great in theory but in practice, the choice of partner can have a massive impact on an entire family. My cousin is married to a truly dreadful woman with whom the absolute fool has had 4 children. Her conduct has destroyed her husbands mental health, driven a wedge between him and his siblings and parents and is a huge source of stress and anxiety all round. Probably the single biggest influence on your life is who you choose as a life partner and/or to have children with, of course other people who love you can at least feel its their business and are affected by it, even if they don't verbalise it. My ex was a bit of a prick to my parents - one of the reasons he's an ex - and that very much was their business. Because he made it so.

OP in your culture, would your brother's wife (whoever she turns out to be) be moving in with your parents, and be under your mum's "control"?

What do your parents actually think about her? Or is it just you who is not keen?

Because you say that this girl and your parents were discussing possible dates for the wedding.

I would tell him because in these cultures you don't just marry each other, you marry the families as well.

In the culture it isn't common any longer to live with the ILs but it would have been once. Brother and his wife will move to their own place whenever they get married.

Parents are only discussing wedding dates because they are under the impression brother is happy and wants to get married.

It is me and my sister who met the girlfriend for dinner and just us who feel like this. FWIW, before the dinner we were excited to meet her and with what info my brother had told us about her we always tried to explain how a girl might feel in that situation eg. She once complained he wasn't saying much to him about anything and we said it's important to be more communicative and explain how you're feeling etc, or when brother was seemingly keeping his options open we told him how that's not OK if he is committed to the girl. Anyway, we left the dinner feeling a bit bummed out because we'd sort of stuck up for this girl whenever my brother asked us things about her etc and just couldn't believe she was so mean/rude.

This too. My sister and I are married to lovely guys and our lives with both my family and our in laws are really nice. No issues on either side.

I don't actually know. I don't think she did but I don't know for certain.

I would talk to your brother and ask him how he think it went. Spend some time with him and see if you can gauge how he is feeling.

you might not have to say anything at all.

We're Indian and Muslim.
Sex before marriage is strictly prohibited HOWEVER it completely depends on the individual and I have no idea whether my siblings adhere to the rules or not. (I did not adhere to the rules for example).

Parents are only discussing wedding dates because they are under the impression brother is happy and wants to get married

Ah, okay. I think I misunderstood and assumed your parents liked her.

This girl sounds like someone who is a generation behind, if you see what I mean.
I have read the comments from Indian women on this thread, and quite a few said that the girl was just being typically Indian. But you're not like that. Not now. So it grated on you, I think.

Does that make sense?

Makes a lot of sense. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I've just never know anybody to be like this let alone when you meet someone for the first time.