To not like how my parents are being used?

[NeedSomeAnswersPlease]

I'm going to try to keep this vague but on point.

I'm one of four children. Two of us don't have our own children, two do. My parents are retired and elderly.

The two of us without children live at home, we're "adult children" - both working but unable to afford rent or a mortgage.

My siblings will, very often, expect my parents to care for the children. There's one who's school age and three who are toddlers.

My parents frequently get overwhelmed. Every winter, we're sick from September to April because of the bugs that are brought into the house from nursery and school. My parents have spent a lot of time in hospital in the last three years because they've got sick. I miss at least a week of work each year because the bugs are just this awful.

The kids' behaviour is, to not put too fine a point on it, fucking horrendous. Tantrums, they hit each other, swearing, lots of tantrums from all of them. My parents feel they can't discipline them as their approaches as parents is very different to the children's parents.

They're expected to pay for all food and snacks and any activities they take the children to. They're comfortable but it still doesn't feel fair to me.

If my parents book a holiday, my siblings will be extremely angry because they're losing childcare. My parents are looked at as a crèche, not grandparents. We don't see my nieces and nephews unless it's to look after them. The only time I get to spend time with them is if I book a day off work to help out with childcare - but I don't have unlimited annual leave and it's often very short notice that they're expected to have more than one child at once.

It's getting to the point that my parents are totally overwhelmed, but if they try and step back they won't see their grandchildren. I hate seeing them like this because they're always just exhausted, but I have a full time job.

They get bossed around and if they try to say no, get told that my siblings have already spent money for nursery etc and so my parents need to suck it up. I'm totally fed up but have no idea what to do to help them, because if anything is said it'll cause a family fallout!

You keep going back to finances. If that’s what this is about, then the money saved by you living at home far outweighs the cost of childcare.

Mostly you seem to complain about everyone, and everything making your life, miserable. Your misery cannot be the fault of literally everyone else.
Make changes for yourself, to make yourself happier.
Let your parents run their own lives, don’t meddle.

@SunQueen24 and I'm incredibly grateful for that? It doesn't change the fact I literally cannot afford to rent at the moment because I am training in my career!

If it’s fixed days and times could your parents afford to have a babysitter come to their home to help them with the kids? ( i know they shouldn’t have to but…) It may make your siblings think twice as well without getting in to a row…

I've just caught up on the OP's recent responses, and I don't think there's a point in continuing this thread. The OP has posted her opinion, and nearly 400 posts later, in response to any questioning of her position, has simply doubled down on how different she and the other younger sibling are in their demands on the parents, to those of the older 2 siblings.

OP doesn't need to consider potential alternatives to her view of the family situation her parents have allowed to prevail. She knows her family and all of their interior thoughts far better than anyone else could, and already has the answer to the title of this thread.

Also, they pay £85 per day at nursery, so that's £255 per day they have all three of them, twice a week that's £510 or £2040 a month, so no it's not actually saving more

No, I'm just not having a bunch of people telling me im a bad child and exploiting my parents for living at home and paying them rent

I cannot get over the amount of people who are hung up on OP living at home. How many times has OP said it's mutually beneficial? My DBro moved back in with my mom in his 40s after a spell abroad and never left lol. My DM was recently widowed, it was lockdown and I have never been more grateful for anything in my my life than the two of them being able to support each other because I could not (expat).
I am also mithered by all the 'there must be something wrong with your immune systems' shite. I've never been sicker than when I lived with medical students who were doing their paeds rotations, followed by when my own kids started nursery/primary.
OP, honestly, if it was me, I'd have no problem resolving this by taking matters into my own hands and telling my cheeky fucker DBs to fuck off. Initially there will be pushback but if I genuinely thought my parents were being driven in to an early grave, then I'd do everything in my power to stop it. Even without their permission.

Grandparents should discipline and if the parents don’t like it then time to go and find alternative childcare. However if grandparents aren’t willing to do that unfortunately not a lot you can do

As grandparents we've always disciplined all our grandchildren. Usually to keep them safe, keep the dogs safe, or make sure that they don't fight each other. This is expected at home and at school.

The posts about you still living at home are a red herring. It is entirely up to your parents though to set their own limits with your siblings. It isn't really up to you to judge or to get involved, I can't see how expressing your opinion will help.

@NeedSomeAnswersPlease "
No, I'm just not having a bunch of people telling me im a bad child and exploiting my parents for living at home and paying them rent"

I don't think anyone's called you "a bad child". Only questioned why you think you being at home for an indeterminate spell is less of a burden on your parents than caring for the DGC? Your older siblings do sound very entitled in their approach to this childcare provision, but you sound equally entitled. Which may be down to your parents being the type of parents who can't do enough for their children.

Your parents live their lives according to their values, which involves supporting their children, clearly. You come across as wanting to establish yourself as the "superior" child, which may have something to do with wider family dynamics. I think you'd do well to respect your parents' choices and values, be mindful that you also benefit from those choices and values, and avoid creating a divide with your older siblings over a matter which is between them and your parents. One day your parents will be gone and when they are, your siblings are the only people in the world who grew up with them and share that part of your life experience.

A lot has been said on this thread and much of it, I agree with but some I do not. You living at home is not the point under discussion here, so lets ignore that except to acknowledge that it gives you a front row seat on what is going on.

However, this is up to your parents to address and set boundaries, and you can support them with this. Sit your parents down and discuss what is going on. Get them to write a list to discuss with the parents.

1: The grandparents have made a regular commitment to look after the grandkids to assist the parents, but they are not employees and its actually the parents responsibility to check with the grandparents that any arrangements they (the parents) make for the kids, is convenient for the grandparents before booking them. To do this they need to

• Discuss expectations, schedules, and boundaries openly with grandparents to ensure everyone is on the same page.
• Regularly check in to address any concerns or changes in circumstances.

2.The Grandparents should not have to bare a financial loss for the pleasure of looking after their grandkids for free.

• Look into government schemes or credits that might be available for grandparents providing childcare3.
• expenses should be covered by the parents if they are not paying for the childcare. At school they would have to pay dinner money and money for outings, so start as they mean to go on.

3.Ensure grandparents have time for their own activities and rest. If sufficient notice is given, the Grandparents should be able to take a holiday without the parents granting permission - the parents will have to find holiday cover as they would with a childminder. It isn't up to your siblings to berate the grandparents for not consulting with them about their holidays, your siblings should have checked that your parents had no plans before THEY made arrangements that included your parents services.

4.Childcares/nurseries ask you NOT to send kids in for care if they are ill and the same should apply here, given that these are older childcarers and one has a supressed immune system - the parents need to accept this. Older adults often have weaker immune systems whcih makes them more sisceptible to catching illnesses fromt heir grandkids, illness that are mild in kids can be more severe in older adults.

The grandparents will be out of circulation for a lot shorter period if some consideration is given to their wellbeing - they are doing the parents a tremendous favour.

Balancing these aspects can help create a more harmonious childcare arrangement

If they cannot accept the above, then they need to find alternative care arrangements.

And yes, if the parents are petty, then they may withhold the grandkids for a while but the alternative is the grandparents sub come to permanent ill health (or worse) and that won't be good for anyone. I bet after a while they will start asking for baby sitting duties on a night/weekend and lets be honest, if they are so cruel that they will withhold contact with the kids, then the grandparents are better off without them.

I have read through majority of thread and cant believe the OP is getting so much grief!
I have two DD both with children. Both lived with me well into their twenties youngest was 27. Loved having them and while i couldnt help with deposits was happy I could help with forgoing rent to help them along. They still done plenty in the house and ahopped cooked etc. i missed them when they both went but have a great relationship with them. Both now have children and whilst i help out, I still work full time so have them for odd sleepovers, that I love, and wee trips out. Never feel under pressure to do so I think its sad that your parents are missing out on the more fun part of grandparenting. Could that not be an angle your parents approach your siblings with?
When my girls were small my parents helped out but were not their main carers. When my sister had her children she did expect more and I know my DM struggled. I had a quiet word with her and while she did ease off with expectations of my DP she did feel entitled as she had a better job lifestyle etc and had this need to keep up with the joneses, I felt, so didnt want to pay for childcare. A few comments kind of shamed her into easing off and understand your reluctance to get involved but maybe a few well placed comments could have them think again?
I think your DPs are lucky to have you looking out for them even if that is just a shoulder for them at the minute.
Good luck

My goodness, do half these posters even have kids?? And how many have had three age of 3 and under?

My teenagers are pretty much a breeze because they can do things for themselves. I purposely did not have any more because I knew I would be absolutely knackered and I'm only 40.

My children can live with me as long as they want as long as they pull their weight around the house. Adult children are responsible for themselves. They are also responsible for their own children!

OP your siblings sound absolutely awful. If you can't afford childcare for your children then 8k holidays need to go at the very first instance.

I'm not doubting the truthfulness of your post here btw, but I am struggling to believe people actually do this to their own parents! Although I don't and didn't use my parents as free childcare because they're MY responsibility.

Outrageous. You parents just need to say enough is enough, they can cope with one day a week (if that's what they can deal with) and that's it.

What are the reasons their wives/partners family aren't doing the child care?

Some people really don't. I think some people get really caught up and can't see the wood from the trees. I've got a friend who does put an awful lot on her DM and MIL (between them they have her 2 toddler DC 5 days a week and every other weekend and some evenings). Her DM has said to my DM a couple of times that she is overwhelmed with caring for my friends 2 toddler DC, the weekends and evenings on the weeks she has them 3 days a week are hard for her.

My friend is so caught up in juggling everything, she has a stressful job and a DH who works shifts. Her boss isn't the most understanding when it comes to needing time off for DC illnesses, she works with lots of others with DC and it is always a scrabble for holiday time. Her work is short staffed (another employee is on long term sickness) so organising cover is hard, there is a lot of resentment in her team as their manager is not good at managing the workload of the people off sick. Then there is their lifestyle to finance (holidays, new cars, meals out, trips and weekends away with her DH, designer clothes for the DC and them) with 2 salaries which have not kept pace with 2 DC and COL crisis. She has to have every penny accounted for as money is tight nowadays. She openly admits that was it not for her DM and MIL they wouldn't be able to afford the lifestyle they have. She loves her lifestyle and it is a non negotiable for her. She found the baby months incredibly hard (covid baby) as her life changed so much after having DC1 and felt like she lost herself, her solution is to live just as she did pre kids and leans on her DM and MIL to do so.

She doesn't realise the amount she puts on her DM and MIL and I know that if she was confronted about it by them she would become very defensive and seen as blowing up. That is one example that I know of. There are many others in similar situations up and down the country. Many of us live to the edges of our income. Having 1 income wiped out entirely by nursery fees is hard.

Essentially it's because my parents have been taken for mugs and will do whatever they're told, the other side won't take them to classes etc

This is such a hard one OP. Really it is up to your parents to tell your brothers that they can't do so much child care anymore but it doesn't sound like they want to for whatever reason.

You can speak to your brothers and tell them but I think it will fall on deaf ears as they will put their needs first.

I think all you can do is be there to support your parents wherever you can and be their sounding board. But ultimately, its down to them to say no and follow it through.

I wouldn’t expect grandparents to offer free childcare to young grandchildren at the expense of their health. However I also wouldn’t expect them to continue to house their adult children.

OP I have no idea why you're getting so much flack here. Adult children living respectfully in a large enough house with their folks can be a lovely bonus for everyone. Small children are exhausting even when you're young and they're reasonably well behaved! It's clearly not comparable. And yes, September to April sickness sounds extreme but I think some kids do carry more bugs than others (my neighbour's little girl literally was only in nursery for six days out of a month earlier this year because of various illnesses), and I think once our own kids are over that stage we tend to forget how intense the illnesses are.
Other posters have given you good advice about encouraging your folks to put their feet down (and if they really won't, then asking them not to complain to you about it) and how little the really do stand to lose by doing that, in all likelihood. I just wanted to say that you sound nice and caring for your folks and I think you've been given an oddly rough ride here. Perhaps the description of how your siblings behave has struck an uncomfortable nerve with some of the people who have been so angry in their replies?

I think the advice from the

I think with the illnesses what does us in is it's three kids in different nursery classes (so three different bacteria breeding grounds there), plus a kid in school which is a totally different kettle of fish! At some points it really feels like we just pass the bugs back and forth

Good thing I'm not asking you to house me then? Living together works for us all, if I had any indication it wasn't working anymore I'd sit down with my younger brother and work out a plan for us to leave and rent together, I truly would. But we're all happy and that's all that really matters in my opinion

I can’t read 16 pages, but I don’t think it’s anything to do with you. You’re in a weak position to criticise your siblings.

It’s up to your parents to say something, for starters, and you are hardly independent and mature and making life easy for your parents, are you?

If presumably the ‘thanks’ button is agreement. If only you could see how many people agree with me…..

Oh OP you sound so lovely!

Ignore the haters, they are just pissed off they did not have the relationship you have with your parents

You/your parents are going to have to rock the boat, i think one day of childcare is sufficient.

FWIW, I refused family and friends childcare and chose nursery for exactly this reason - Low income, live hand to mouth but my parents have done their bit, they should not be put on like this - grandparents should get visits and the fun bits.
One day a week childcare would be generous, never mind 3!