In-laws holidaying close by

[ineedsomemoremetime]

I'm struggling and could do with outsider perspective. DH has his parents in reasonable health, late '70s. My parents are no longer. DH is only child (through choice). His parents have always been very close to him, overbearing so often(his childhood friends confirm this).

When I arrived on the scene over 20 years ago I was young and inexperienced and accepted their overbearing nature. Holidays together including spending all time together, all DH birthdays, their birthdays, my birthday etc. and their inquisitive nature - a high level of interest in our lives.

Our children's arrival has stepped up their attention a notch. Now more birthdays etc etc. More questions. Relentless gifts even when no occasion. All done with kindness.

I'm feeling overwhelmed. Recent holidays abroad have made me feel smothered. All meals, outings together. Talk of DH and I getting time alone but this not happening. Children getting parented by their grandparents. I'm feeling swallowed up in this family and without a role.

Now us immediate four are on holidays abroad together camping and happy. Then we get whatsapp messages that transpire the grandparents have finished their time in different European country and are now spending time in the one we are in. Then it appears they are staying 10 miles away. And today they went to a local attraction which we had talked about. Inevitably they found us. Only I had wimped out as I couldn't face it as I knew they would be there. I've been really upset about it and feel we can't even have a holiday as a family of four without them showing up. DH explained lightly to his parents why I wasn't there and now his mum is upset and affronted.

Was I unreasonable? Maybe the above is all entirely normal and I'm the oddity? As explained above they are so very kind and generous. I've just had enough of their intensity :/

Just to add, I'm an only child and very close to my parents.

They do not behave like this.

They are super welcome and important in our lives because they aren't intrusive and overbearing.

They love be 20 mins away but have never visited unannounced.

“DH is a pacifist wimp and will do anything to avoid confrontation.”

Appalling.
You have my sympathy , OP.

If our children choose to have a partner and or children I absolutely will not behave as they do. I guarantee you that.

I'm sad it has affected our own little holiday and is continuing to do so (I'm still upset).

I’d be telling DH they’ve ruined your family holiday by showing up uninvited. I’d be going nuclear at DH (his parents were very similar until one day it was the straw that broke the camels back).

Explain to DH that them randomly popping in uninvited is rude. He has to explain this to them.

There’s no reason for them to be involved in your birthday. If your DH wants them at his birthday, fine. Do the kids want to invite them to their birthdays?

They turn up uninvited and DH doesn’t want to turf them out? Well he can entertain them by himself. You can run yourself a lovely bubble bath and have an early night. They turn up in the afternoon? Don’t provide food. Serve up food for the four of you and crack on as usual.

They what to see you on a weekly basis? Well DH can take the kids over there on his own.

His mum is upset? Boohoo. YOURE an upset and you’re the woman he should be putting first. He should be having a chat with his mother and getting her to deeply apologise for gatecrashing your holiday!

You totally get it. Thank you.

Great that you like it.

The OP DOESN'T like it.

This is good advice OP.

You indulge them because you don't want to be rude.

BUT staying until midnight on a work night is rude. As is turning up without warning and filling your home with crap you don't want.

It's not rude to refuse to tolerate rudeness.

If they overstay their welcome, run a bath and go to bed. If they arrive without warning tell them you were going out and just crack on without them.

Don't be hospitable. Just say we did not expect you and have other plans.

I remember a pp saying her MiL used to answer the door with her coat on re: unexpected visitors.

If she wanted to see them it was lucky she'd just got home. If she didn't...what a shame she was just heading out...

But ultimately this all circles back to your DH who needs to have your back and understand this is not normal behaviour and it's not acceptable and if it continues it's going to be the opposite of being a close family - it will tear you apart.

As I have said, as an only I'm super close to my parents. But they give us space and as a result when we do (regularly) spend time with them it's always something to be looked forward to and enjoyed and not "fucking hell they are here again".

Sorry I never clarified this. When the children argue or ds gets upset (he has asd) then they interject before I or dh have the chance. Telling them what to do, when to be careful etc etc.

He's reasonably easy going and seems to enjoy seeing them 24 7. For example at Christmas when they come for 3 days (which I usually cope with by copious wine and doing dishwashing solo and letting MIL cook with DH (as she won't get out of the kitchen anyway).

Another poster asked about his friends. Yes he does have friends.

Another poster asked about my dh's only child status. This was definitely through choice. MIL told me.

So what would DH reaction be if you put the recommended boundaries in place?

We've been having discussions today. He gets upset and says it's difficult being in the middle and he just wants everyone happy.

He keeps on reminding me that they are getting on in age etc.etc.

I have a very different view on this to most people here, but here goes.

It sounds to me like both of your families are at the opposite end of a spectrum here. The weird holiday hijacking is totally inappropriate, but grandparents being around for family birthdays it's totally normal IMO. It sounds like you've come from a very independent family and now have relatives scattered around the world, and have sadly lost your own parents, so you don't really have a village as such.

The real problem here isn't so much whether they are intrusive, but rather the difference between you and your husband over this. He sounds perfectly happy with the setup and so the other is that the two of you have a different view of how involved his parents should be.

Some people are in contact with their parents most days, drop in on eachother, holiday together etc. Others phone once a month and visit a couple of times a year. The difficulty is your expectations with this don't match.

Personally I see my parents maybe 3 times a week on average. They help out with the kids and are there for birthdays, Christmas etc. I either text or speak on the phone to them most days.

I don't think he should be pushed into seeing them less if he is trying hair with the situation, but equally your shouldn't be obliged to see them every time either. Or stay for 5 minutes and have a convenient place your been to be...

Under circumstances like this, a spouse should never declare themselves to be in the middle, and he's manipulating you when he says that's the case.

When your partner is making an entirely reasonable request, has entirely reasonable needs that can easily be met, you are always firmly on their side. There is no middle.

You are not asking your husband to never see his parents again and that you will never go anywhere with them again. You need healthy separation and the opportunity for your family to do things as their own unit. Nothing you want or need is asking too much.

As for the fact that his parents are getting older, shut that fucking noise down right now. It's just another way of manipulating you. We are all getting older. You, him, me, anyone, could die within the next five minutes. Enough of that nonsense.

For your OH- I would remind him that this holiday was also time for you to spend time together as a husband and wife; relax, chat, have fun; but you can't because you are worried about them constantly turning up. Which they do.

And to be honest, you have explained yourself really well in your posts; you should do the same to his parents. You love them, your children love them but you want to have time as a husband and wife without them. And shut down them parenting your children straight away.

I love how your dh is “conflict avoidant” and “hates being in the middle” but it was what he said that has created this situation.

I don’t agree with all the pps who say that this situation must be handled by dh; he’s clearly not capable and unlikely to suddenly develop a backbone. He’s thrown you under the bus so you may as well accept that you’re now the villain and use that to your advantage.

Decide for yourself what level of contact is acceptable and then work towards that. Don’t get drawn into arguments by making any big declarations. Just have other plans, and changes of plans.

My in-laws are a lot like this - including inserting themselves into our holidays. And dh got absolutely roasted the one and only time he threw me under the bus. It took several years for him to wake up to his dm’s guilt trips, and don’t even start me on “dad’s last Christmas”. I missed my dad’s last Christmas!

He did eventually wake up to it, but I had to build sensible boundaries in the meantime. The key is to not retract when you’re put on the spot. At some point, you’ll get “Dh said that you …” and it will be so tempting to apologise, or deny. Just don’t. Silence will do if you don’t want to have it out.

So the first time we were already on holiday and they didn't even announce their arrival- they surprised us in person at the resort!!!!!!! I was stunned at the time, as I was so shocked. I wasn't keen, but DH didn't mind as he said they'd be able to help with the kids (both little at the time) and let us have some time just the two of us. Tbh that did end up happening in that they helped look after the kids, so that was okay, but it was a silver lining in the cloud because I found it intrusive overall that they were there. Even when they did help out with the kids it was on their terms (they offered to babysit one night but only for an hour and a half!!!! Hardly long enough to drive somewhere, eat out and get back again! Would've been easier for us to have had a takeaway at home ourselves!)

The second time, I was really peeved. I found out when they had already booked somewhere, so I couldn't even say that we'd like our own space please don't, as it was all booked... I was stressed and frustrated because it felt so unfair. It really ruined the excitement for looking forward to the holiday. I was sooooo cross that they didn't ask us before they booked. It isn't ok to just crash someone's holiday!!!!! My pil are quite vocal about us doing things in a different way to them and were very critical. I was potentially quite selfish and did what I wanted with dh, but DH was happy to have us do things as our own family unit. DH wasn't pleased with their behaviour this time. We both said we don't want to ever have a similar situation again!!!!! Our relationship with my pil is tricky anyway as they're quite controlling and if they don't like how we do things they are either vocal about it or get offended and sulk... very emotionally immature at times. I have no idea why they want to gatecrash our holidays tbh as they rarely visit us!! You'd think they'd rather see us for a day in a small dose rather than gate crash our holiday.

Are you my sil? 😂have this exact dynamic in our relationship with dh parents at times!!!

Then you need to be as quick off the mark as they were and say “Thank you…these are our children…we’ll look after this now” and remove yourselves from their company as quickly as you can.

You can assert yourself without being rude and it reads to me like you don’t quite know how to do that with these people.

I would hate this. Don't tell them your holiday plans anymore.

I also agree with PP about not allowing yourself to be manipulated with the "they are getting older" guilt trips. You and your children are also getting older. You only get a few years of family holidays while they are little and in a blink that time of your life is gone. This needs stopping. It's lovely that they want to be in your lives but there has to be boundaries.

YANBU, and your DH had no business making you out to be the baddie.

He is the one allowing his parents to seep into every aspect of your lives… but perhaps he has had no indication that it is all too much, and they may have been given no boundaries. So suddenly to be told that you are not happy is a jolt.

Given that this has gone on so long, and involved DH being in the grip of his parents, it’s complex. I would actually consider couples counselling before any nuclear option involving no contact , low contact and risking permanent upset. To work out between you how to reclaim your nuclear family, a safe space for you to talk about DH’s family (always sensitive) and work out together what you want as a team.

Going against the grain, and I may have missed something here, but it sounds like you are the only one who has a problem with it.

For your DH, this is normal and he clearly expects his parents to be very involved in his / your lives. Your children love spending time with their grandparents. And your PIL expect and live to be deeply involved - which they have been for many years now.

this is not to say your feelings aren’t valid (they are and frankly I feel suffocated just reading your post ). They are completely valid. But you haven’t set any boundaries, you say seem to be on the same page as your DH in this at all. Yes, you can choose to take your own self out of the situation but clearly your DH is not going to follow you.

So you need to sort this out with your DH and present a consistent, united front if things are going to change. Find a middle ground between suffocating over involvement and no contact at all. Maybe some events (like family holidays) can be sacrosanct for just the four of you - and it’s your DHs job to deliver that message to his parents without making you the bad guy. But at other (agreed) events, they are welcomed in - and you stuck it up.

He’s not ‘in the middle’ though, is he? He’s on their side! He can see you are upset, he knows that they are totally imposing themselves on every moment of family time that they can, and yet he says nothing. In fact, he encourages it by making excuses for it and indulging them while they sit there at midnight on a work night. You’ll need to be really firm and explain that, as a family, you have very little time to make independent memories or bond because they are continually present. That the dynamic shifts when it’s no longer you and your husband and children, but also your in-laws. And then do what others have suggested which is to exclude yourself and possibly the children from some of these get togethers so that they are meeting your husband without you. He can entertain them if he wants. He needed to set some boundaries many years ago but hasn’t, so it will now be difficult as the precedent of them seeing him any time they want - even in your holidays - has been established.

Agree with everything @Wiggly says above.

It may take time to undo some of these precedents and set new boundaries.

But you can change some things straight away. If they over stay on a work night, excuse yourself politely and go to bed.

OP, this is not normal behaviour.

I think you need to wake up to just how controlling and manipulative your husband is.

He is way ahead of you.
I think you need to find your anger and upset.

Him and his parents have ruined your holiday.
Remain very very upset.
Do NOT move on from this.
I would be telling him that perhaps you need some time apart.
That he should go and stay with his parents.
That this has made you realise that actually you may not wish to remain married to him.
That tine apart is needed.
He is not a good man.
He is not easy going.
He is a bully that has gotten what he wants for years.
He doesn't care at all what you want.

You may think you have a loving marriage but IMO you really don't.

You are bullied, controlled, manipulated and ignored.
HE gets everything he wants.

I would go the nuclear option.
His family are no longer welcome in your home and he needs to stay with them and visit them alone.

If you do not make a stand now, this is your life.
You will eventually wake up and realise that you allowed your family life and your childrens childhood be absolutely dominated by your husband and his parents.

Your anger will fully erupt but you will not get this time back.

You have lost enough.
Get some sole therapy to figure out why you have tolerated this for so long?

So weird to have to hide your holiday plans in case the stalkers turn up! Your DH needs to man up. They are unlikely to listen to you as you are the outsider in their little threesome and will just come off as the Evil One trying to prevent them from seeing their beloved son and grandchildren. They sound very peculiar and not normal to me so either they are socially completely inept and don't understand how to behave or your DH is secretly (probably out of habit) enabling them to come along too by giving them details of everything you do.