In-laws holidaying close by

[ineedsomemoremetime]

I'm struggling and could do with outsider perspective. DH has his parents in reasonable health, late '70s. My parents are no longer. DH is only child (through choice). His parents have always been very close to him, overbearing so often(his childhood friends confirm this).

When I arrived on the scene over 20 years ago I was young and inexperienced and accepted their overbearing nature. Holidays together including spending all time together, all DH birthdays, their birthdays, my birthday etc. and their inquisitive nature - a high level of interest in our lives.

Our children's arrival has stepped up their attention a notch. Now more birthdays etc etc. More questions. Relentless gifts even when no occasion. All done with kindness.

I'm feeling overwhelmed. Recent holidays abroad have made me feel smothered. All meals, outings together. Talk of DH and I getting time alone but this not happening. Children getting parented by their grandparents. I'm feeling swallowed up in this family and without a role.

Now us immediate four are on holidays abroad together camping and happy. Then we get whatsapp messages that transpire the grandparents have finished their time in different European country and are now spending time in the one we are in. Then it appears they are staying 10 miles away. And today they went to a local attraction which we had talked about. Inevitably they found us. Only I had wimped out as I couldn't face it as I knew they would be there. I've been really upset about it and feel we can't even have a holiday as a family of four without them showing up. DH explained lightly to his parents why I wasn't there and now his mum is upset and affronted.

Was I unreasonable? Maybe the above is all entirely normal and I'm the oddity? As explained above they are so very kind and generous. I've just had enough of their intensity :/

With all the birthday celebrations, if they are yours and the children, why not invite your siblings and family as well. This would dilute his parents and turn it into a family event. They can choose what they want to do on their birthday but not yours!

How old are your children? As they get older they will make their own friendships and be going out. Childhood holidays don’t last that long, Our oldest is 17 and we’re not sure how long he’ll be coming away with us as a family so don’t let the holidays slip by with your in laws inserting themselves into them.

From where I'm sitting it reads as though your DH is less comfortable in saying No to his parents than to you.

How did they know where you were going to be when you're on holiday? That's where I would start.

Put them on an information diet. Only what they absolutely have to know about what is going on in your lives is what they are told about.
"Yes we're going away on holidays"
"No, we haven't decided where but sure it's going to be an adventure for the kids".

You need to get your DH on side. I wonder if he'd be the type of person who would go to his parents for support if you had a medical condition and would share your medical condition with them? If he would, you need to have a very grown up conversation with him about what is and isn't suitable topics of conversation with his parents.

Does your DH have many friends? Just wondering.

@LookItsMeAgain - as much as I agree that the pils are too full on and dh ought to re-examine the current dynamic, I don't think dictating his relationship with them is a goer.
She can't tell him what he is and isn't allowed to discuss with them. Nor can she set the bar for a 'need to know' basis. That's control.

Dh's mindset on this has to change, not his actions. Anyone should be able to tell their parents where they are going on holiday or other details of their family day to day life.

The chat needs to open up a discussion about the level of involvement and their presence, not what he can and cannot do.

YADNBU
It's about time your DH set a firm, and I mean film boundary in place with your PIL because it sounds suffocating.

If that is not possible, don't mention anything online or in person to any family members about where you will be spending your next family holiday.......then hopefully you can all get the break you deserve.

I don't think your DH's mother understands she is full on and the effect this is having on you, she needs to respect your space and your DHs as well as show some respect, if she blames this shenanigans on you, do not stand for it and make sure your DH backs you up100%

If you let this pass and he try's to placate his parents over this you'll spend every next holiday/family day out on high alert waiting for them to pop out from behind a hedge.

Sorry, but this did make me laugh!

This bit in your last post @ineedsomemoremetime "They are almost 'elderly' now though and DH now refers to 'we may not have them for much longer'. Good genes run in his family though and I can't live with that mentality. Could go on for another 10+ years and by then the children will be adults."
leads me to believe that your DH is mired in the FOG - Fear, Obligation and Guilt.

Fear that 'we may not have them for much longer'....well, I hate to be blunt but your DH or you could drop dead just as quickly from an undetected condition or be knocked down by a car or bus or whatever (I'm not trying to be crude here but merely outlining that no one knows when their time is up).
Obligation - that if he doesn't spend every possible moment with them he'll miss out or the kids will or they will. He's obliged to be there for his parents, all the while his wife and children miss out on being a family of their own.
Guilt - that if he doesn't spend time with his parents, what might happen to them but there is no guilt associated with not spending time with his wife and kids away from his parents.

What does 'almost elderly' mean? Are they in their 60's or 80's? Are they fully mobile and has anyone sat down with them to discuss their care plans for whenever that might be necessary as you might end up seeing even less of your DH or it might turn that they would be expecting you to step in and care for them. You will need to put your own boundaries there.

I’d be full on telling your Dh he either moves back in with them or he sets some very firm boundaries. Turning up 10 miles away is appalling. Trouble is, you’ve tolerated their behaviour for 20 years so they’re going to be very resistant to a change in dynamic. Decide what you want eg no more joint holidays, no ‘dropping in’ from 40 minutes away, birthdays are sacrosanct and stop with the over the top presents and tell Dh he MUST enforce these. If he doesn’t, it sounds like you’re likely to break and then there’ll be a big rupture from which they’ll be no coming back. He needs to explain that it’s all too much, not you.

As a pp mentioned, this living on the never never of ‘They may not be around for much longer’ is bollocks, they may be around for another 20 years!

Actually op I don't think they are as lovely as you think. They chose to have only one child and have now taken over yours too. I would have a huge, huge problem with that. That is completely disrespectful of you as a mother and even a wife.
They come bearing gifts but that is just a layer of manipulation. How calculating to appear in the same holiday destination as your family. They sound insufferable and suffocating.
And to be honest, children absolutely adore anyone who's showering them with gifts. So I wouldn't feel guilty about that relationship.

You've had to endure 20 years of them, unless you want to endure another 20 you need to give your husband an ultimatum about them. You're sacrificing your place in your family and as a parent, because they have decided that's their role and you are a bystander. I would be utterly done with all of them.

They are very late 70s. Loads of ongoing health issues. But still well enough to holiday. They are fully mobile. MIL doesn't drive.

Sounds terrible but I'm absolutely dreading when one dies or is very ill. I'm dreading their increasing dependence. MIL has referred to bungalows close by but thankfully FIL refuses to move.

Kids are y6 and y8.

I just remembered a previous weird thing they did in relation to holidays. We had booked a half term break in the canaries without them. They then (unknown to us) booked to the same island at the same time, only 3 days later, different resort. Didn't tell us until we and they were back. How strange is that?

I can't. They live too far away and some in different countries.

You say "unknown to us at the time" except the cynic in me is going "Really??? They really had zero information that you were leaving to go to the Canaries on holiday...no idea at all???" and then if you dig a little deeper, you will find that your DH let something slip during a conversation. Something that he would have thought of as a throw away comment and not at all important but actually it would be a nugget of information to his parents who would have latched on to it and booked as soon as he was gone from their home.

They are definitely giving me those sorts of vibes to be completely honest with you.

I mean we didn't know they were there. They knew where we were going and when.

So they were stalking you then.

Stop telling them stuff that is none of their business. Seriously put a complete and utter stop to it.

If they ask why you're not talking to them or telling them stuff, be honest and say that when you did tell them stuff they ended up crashing your holidays, plural, when you really wanted a break with just DH and the kids.

If they can't handle that, then that's a 'them' issue to resolve and you keep going with whatever you're doing.

Please make sure that you have gates and a video doorbell that you can, if necessary, pretend to be out if they call by. I'd start pretending to be out more and more and say "Oh I do wish you would have phoned to see if we'd be in. I'm sorry but we won't be back for some time. See you again soon." as this whole situation is of their making. They keep infringing on your time so push back.

Can't you give them inaccurate information when it comes to holidays? Say you've booked a holiday to Tenerife, can't you tell them you've booked to go to Malta instead? Or would your dh be the weakest link here?

My in laws were similar but not as bad as yours and it took many years before they respected our boundaries. You need to start small because they've had 20 years of this behaviour.

Book a weekend away for your next birthday without telling them and celebrate with your immediate family. You can invite them for a cuppa and birthday cake at a local cafe on a separate day etc.

It will take time but you need to put small boundaries in place first. Don't cut them out immediately but replace long visits with shorter ones, home visits with restaurants etc. Kids have a class party at friends house but we'll see you for tea next Friday night etc.

In Mumsnet it is people often feel over crowded by their families. I think families are supposed to be close. It takes a village to parent a child. I invite my parents and in laws on holiday with us. I love the kids having a close connection with their wider family. I think it will be beneficial for all. However if you are needing a break and want to holiday just as a four that is also perfectly valid and your DP needs to tell them the next holiday is just for you as a four. Don't forget one day you will be the Grandma and you will be really looking forward to sharing in the Grandchildrens lives.

They need to be put on a strict information diet.

Re the birthday issues, can you break the cycle by travelling to your family/somewhere else entirely for some of them? And don’t have them coming to you. You go to them and leave when it suits you so they can’t stay til bloody midnight.

You need DH on board. If MIL gets upset, so what? He needs to be more concerned about upsetting you.

This happened to us - a deadly combination of overbearing MIL and people pleasing DH.

Came to a head when they invited themselves to stay for a month. DH offered our bedroom. It nearly ended our marriage. We came through it but I am no contact with them now and will never holiday with them again.

Creepy, weird and boundaryless. I feel that a big problem here however, is your DH. He is so enmeshed and influenced by them that he cannot see objectively and take on board how abnormal, intrusive and intense this is for you. I mean you cried at the end of a holiday with them before you had kids? That is a very strong emotional reaction, you were breaking down with the level of internal stress and unhappiness you were supressing.

Their behaviour is not normal and unacceptable. I just don't think they understand and I don't know how you fix this unfortunately. I really hope you manage to talk to your DH and reach a solution.

Dh problem.

It is like full blown stalking. They're following you to different countries. Going to places they think you'll be and looking for you. It's like that bloke in "You". I bet they spent that other holiday hunting you down but never found you.

I could not live this. I think you should send a message to MIL examining how much she's suffocating you. "DH told me you were upset I didn't go to the fair today becuase I knew you would bump into us. I understand it may be upsetting to think that I'm avoiding you. But I really need you to try to think how it feels for me to never get time with my own husband and children without you. We are 15000 miles from home, and you have come to the exact same place, at the exact same time. It is so intrusive and uncomfortable for me. I'm really hurt you couldn't just let us have a family holiday without you. I love you both and I don't want to grow to resent any time we spend together becuase of this kind of behaviour so i need you to let us have our family time and only join when invited."

MIL rang her son every morning at work "for a chat" and he told her anything she asked. He didn't see anything wrong, he'd been brought up to have no private life and hadn't considered that I might like one. It was normal for him to tell his mum absolutely everything, he never questioned why she wanted to know everything that was happening in his life. It came to light when someone I vaguely knew asked me about something that should have been known only to me and DH. Yes, he'd told his mother who had told half the city but fortunately not my mother or I'd still be digging myself out of that hole.

MIL was an interrogator, endless questions about trivial things and to me every conversation felt like a never endling search for information. My husband humoured me to start with then she really ramped up the questioning until even he acknowledged that it felt weird. After that the default was to tell her nothing until after the fact.

Show your husband this thread. He needs a massive wake up call to understand that the relationship he has with his parents overstepping their boundaries is nuts and he needs to put a stop to it.

@ineedsomemoremetime

*They are almost 'elderly' now though and DH now refers to 'we may not have them for much longer'. Good genes run in his family though and I can't live with that mentality. Could go on for another 10+ years and by then the children will be adults.

Won't be doing another joint holiday for sure but cannot see a way out of all the sodding birthdays etc.where we are a 6. Then it descends into what feels like an interrogation of our lives. Again DH is fine with this as it is normal.

Difficult to get them to leave too. It's usually midnight, even on a work night.* *

As I posted above, what they have done on this holiday is so extreme, it does give you leverage to call time not just on holiday behaviour but more generally.

As a start point your DH needs to be told this is not normal. Far from it.

Ask him about his own childhood. I suspect he and his parents are close because they had space to bond as a family. I'll bet good money that he and his parents did not live with this level of intrusion from his grandparents. It's only "normal" because he's decided it is.

You need to be clear you can't continue to live this way. His parents age is irrelevant. The behaviour is not acceptable at 50 or 80.

You are not suggesting (at least for now) that they are not welcome in your lives.

But the unscheduled visits at home need to stop. As does the wasteful gifting.

When they are invited they need to leave at a reasonable time (especially on a school night).

Everyone needs to stop assuming that every birthday in the family needs to spent together. For your birthday especially you can absolutely put your foot down.

Holidays of course are sacrosanct. If they pull this stunt again all bets are off.

Your DH needs to understand that doing nothing isn't an option anymore because if he continues to allow you to feel smothered and a third wheel (whose feeling take second place to your IL's) in your family unit - then you'll take action.

Starting with going low contact with his parents. If he wants to see them fine. But you won't. When they visit you'll go out, taking the children if you see fit.

He can choose to reduce the contact to reasonable levels which you are comfortable participating in or you won't participate at all.

In short the current status quo will not continue. He's going to have to make some choices and ultimately if he chooses his parents feelings over yours then it's a moot point because there won't be a family unit as it exists now as you'll be paying a visit to a shit hot divorce lawyer - cos you're utterly done after this latest stunt of theirs.