Primary child sat only with non-English speaking children

[evilharpy]

I don't know if IABU so grateful for any opinions.

Daughter is in second to last year of primary and has just gone back to school (we are in Ireland, before anyone says it's too early) and they've been allocated to their table groups. The class is maybe 1/4 ESL children, 3/4 native speakers. She is on one long table with only children who have fairly recently moved here and don't speak much English sitting beside or really anywhere near her, certainly not close enough to talk to or pair up with for activities. Several of them are from the same country so speak each other's language.

Now I have no problem at all with ESL children being sat with or paired up with native speakers, how else are they supposed to learn, and I know the purpose of lessons is not to sit chatting to your friends, but she is worried she will be isolated and that she will end up spending more time helping them than doing her own work. She is very academic, if that's relevant, but is not at all prone to drama or moaning so the fact that she has told me she's worried about it has made me concerned.

WIBU to raise this with the teacher and ask if the tables could be mixed up a bit? Has anyone had a similar experience and it's worked out ok for the child?

You really don't like parents do you? Op hardly suggested she was going to go in all guns blazing.

Hopefully a brief chat will be enough to resolve things

Exactly. Why get so defensive?
My daughter has been in a similar situation, where she was seated next to someone to provide „good influence“.
It did have a negative impact on her.
No matter how much they „move around“ or see their friends at lunchtime, they still have to do quite a bit of work with the child sitting next to them. In our daughter‘s case it was a boy who was just messing about and refusing to do any work, and she ended up feeling responsible.

@evilharpy

You might find more relevant advice if you post in craicnet rather than AIBU.

Yes both myself and my husband have been In this position age 7 and 9…not in English that’s our native language. And 1 year was enough for us both too

Oh God, this. In primary one of my DDs was used several times as a 'bolster' between 2 badly behaved boys, to her detriment. Her work was damaged, she was shoved, kicked etc. The teacher admitted this was fairly common practice, but did eventually move her.

My oldest DD is in 6th form, and last year was sat with a couple of class clown lads by her teacher - after several weeks of them rocking the desks, shadow boxing, shouting at each other over her head etc she asked to move. He told her if he did that his life would be hell as "imagine how much worse their behaviour would be without your influence." 🙄 If she's put with them again next month I'll be having a word.

At think it is worth bearing in mind these children could be extremely bright, I mean at maths or another subject. By half term they could be absolutely thriving. I think the teacher is going to be in a tricky position if people start stipulating how many children with ESOL they want their child sat with

I’d go in and mention it to the teacher as others have said in a polite way and not as a complaint, just so the teacher is aware how your daughter is feeling and has a chance to either make a change or explain it’s for a very short time. I went in one time (many years ago) when my similar aged son, fairly new to a school was moved away from the few friends he’d made because classes were being split for the next year. I nearly cried in front of the headteacher but he was lovely, understood and moved my son back with his pals.

The OP did.
The child fears the kids at her table will speak together in their language and she will be excluded.

This happened my daughter. I decided not to intervene at first but ended up having to as they were all whispering to each other in their own language and she was left out. There is no way I would wait until Halloween. She’s told you about it because she is unhappy.

My year 5 teacher did a form of this. I was very academic & well behaved and got parked with a the naughtiest boy in class who struggled with maths &

Lots of teachers will claim this doesn't happen but my mum, cousin & sister (all teachers) have all agreed its a standard tactic to take "difficult" children and pair them with "easy" ones in the hope that a) good behaviour will rub off b) academic child will support weaker learner etc

And Irish students often eat their lunch at their places in the classroom. Many (most?) Irish primary schools do not have a lunch room or cafeteria.

If the child is worried and staff approachable - first thing I'd do is talk to them and mention my child's concerns - it may be a temp set up or have a good reason but asking gets you the information and hopefully reassurance.

Yes to this.

Yes I would advise you to speak politely to her teacher and voice your concerns. Back when I was in year 5 I was moved from my group of friends to sit with another girl every lesson because she was new and I spoke her native language. It definetley impacted me.

She really is of the mind set “you’re just a friend I have not met yet” and she chats to everyone.

All her school reports mention how kind she is - makes me very proud of her 😀

But this has not hindered her academic progress but for OP if her daughter is finding it difficult I think it is fair to mention it to the teacher.

We have just moved country yesterday and it was my daughter first day in a bilingual school - she speaks one of the languages but not the other. So the boot was on the other foot today and she has been shown the same kindness she had displayed 😀

It would work better for the ESL crowd to be split round the class.

Sometimes we forget teachers are superhuman and infallible.

I’m not a teacher, but if I am delivering something for a client and they don’t understand why I’ve done something, or think they have a more effective way of doing something - I welcome the feedback and either take the time to explain why my way is best, or - shock horror - I take their feedback on board and change my approach. It’s a great learning and reflecting opportunity.

Maybe you should adopt that approach when your “clients” (ie parents) want to understand why you’re doing the great things you for their kids, or may be they’ve identified a blind spot you didn’t know you had.

We had no ESL kids at my small, rural village school, but like some PPs I was consistently sat next to the 'naughty' kids from age 6 all the way up to leaving at age 11. My teacher told me I could tell them off if needed (I never did - I was a very quiet, meek child!) and told them to ask me first if they didn't understand anything and I'd have to explain to them.

In Y5 the teacher also left me 'in charge' of the whole class whenever she had to pop out, and told the whole class they had to listen to me and follow my instructions - as you can imagine this did wonders for my existing image as a teacher's pet! I have no idea what she was thinking - I may have been academic and well behaved but I was very far from having the confidence to discipline my classmates or tell them what to do! Thankfully the Y6 teacher didn't do this!

OP if your DD is worried then please do speak to the teacher. I was too much of a people pleaser to say anything to anyone including my parents despite being desperately unhappy with the situation. I really wish I had as although it didn't affect my academic results it did affect my whole primary school experience.

I had this. I was literally sat between the worst influences. I became incredibly protective over my work and wouldn't share anything with them or help them. On the upside, I developed a great ability to completely ignore them and zone out in a noisy classroom and focus on my work!

I had this issue and I did talk to the school, though i waited a couple of weeks to see if things would improve. My dd has a language disorder and is socially awkward yet she was sat at a table of foreign students with very little English, who only spoke to and hung out with each other, so she was completely isolated. I hate anti teacher/school threads but they don't always get it right.

I was an immigrant child once and I agree with you.
My parents actually actively avoided sending me to a school where there were lots of other kids from the same background as us, because they wanted me to learn the local language properly.
I don’t see how it makes sense to put children from the same background all next to each other, so they can just chat in their native language.

In my kids school (also Ireland) they mix up the tables at each half term, for a number of reasons (moving the more disruptive children around, breaking up cliques etc) - but that does mean she'd have to last until October.

I don't think a quiet word would be unreasonable - to just mix it up a little bit so there's a more even distribution of the ESL kids

This doesn't sound good for any of them tbh. The ESL students won't have other native speakers to talk to, and this will overburden your daughter or make her feel excluded. If nothing else, she may worry about them to her own detriment.

I'd raise it with her teacher, and suggest that there should be a good mix at all tables..

I understand your daughter may be worried but it's too early to tell whether this will be an issue. If, after a while, you and your daughter feel it is getting in the way of her learning, I would raise it then. The teacher may swap seats around anyway. DD has been in since Tuesday and already been moved tables once, so I think it takes a while for teachers to assess the dynamics and abilities between children and place them accordingly.

I'm a primary school teacher.
( 30 plus years)I'd advise you to get in touch with her teacher and explain your concerns exactly as you have done here.
I'd prefer to chat about pupils' worries with mums/dads as soon as they are aware of them.
I'm sure the school will be happy to put your ( and more importantly your DD's ) mind to rest.