Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

[Daniagainagainagainagain]

Apologies for the grabby title. I've NC'd for this as I have a few running threads currently with very outing and personal details on.

Anyway back to the point.
I see SO many threads on here where the topic about the thread is about a guy. It's not even necessarily bad about the bloke in question, but so many many posters just seem to hate men. Not give them the benefit of the doubt. Tear them a new arsehole for merely posting on MN asking for advice. There was a thread recently about a woman seeing a really nice guy, a gentlemen as she described him where he had been separated for literally YEARS but wasn't divorced. Turns out there were cultural differences meaning divorce in that country is very rare. People kept saying 'throw him back in the sea' 'he's a liar' one poster called him a wanker.. there was no evidence that he was a wanker and the OP seemed happy with the guy. Just more people clutching for their moment to berate men. It's always the guys fault on here no matter what.

It's always the same posters more often than not berating men, shooting them down, and just hating them. I wonder, do these women posters have sons? If so, do you think your sons are exempt from such awful insults because 'my boy would never'? I can't imagine these posters talking about their sons like that. So do you pick and choose, is it one rule for your sons and one for all other men?

Before it labelled being 'cool' I have just got out of a 10 year abusive relationship where ex cheated multiple times to the point of police involvement. I am not naive to think some of these guys deserve what they get.

AIBU? To think there's huge double standards? To call strangers with no reason to, wankers, but to also think the son shines out of your son's arses?

I know I'll probably ruffle some feathers but I'd genuinely like to know. And yes I have DC.

I haven’t RTFT. But as a mum of boys this is something I have thought about a lot lately.

As far as I can see, a lot of men are absolute arseholes. Not all, but a lot. And even the ‘good’ ones are still influenced by existing in a patriarchal society.

I’ve got two boys, and one of the things that having two sons has shown me is that most young boys are absolutely lovely. That’s not just me worshipping my own sons. I mean my sons’ friends, my friends’ sons, my nephews - they’re all delightful. Kind, thoughtful, sweet human beings.

Boys aren’t born arseholes. Something happens between childhood and adulthood and I don’t know what it is. I hope I can figure it out. Steve Biddulph’s book ‘Raising Boys’ has a few insights/theories on this - he thinks it starts when they’re shoved into formal education far too early without due regard for the fact that their brains mature much slower than girls do.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so egregious.

I don’t agree that posting the true facts regarding murders is minimising murder or rape? It is true that men are 2x more likely to be murdered than women. That is a fact.

It is also a fact that the murder rate is at an all time historic low.

Rape, sexual assault, these are issues, but stating the facts on murder have noting to do with either.

We dont all read the same threads.
You said in a pp about baby regret if it's a boy, I rarely go on threads about babies, so I wouldn't know. Same with mil and step parenting and the royals. I have no interest so I dont bother. However women in abusive relationships and skin conditions and fwr and menopause and parking threads, I'm there, I have an interest.
If you went on the same threads as me, you too would see the same story being played out, year after year. Surely to God if you saw the same things happening to so many different women you too would point out the similarities between that womans problems and how other women have dealt with it. You too would share your story and show other women what to look out for, when the dangerous points are, that your abuser will try to convince you he will get 50/50 custody, but is that true, he has no interest now, why would he want them 50%
To look at how much you'll get in benefits, that it is hard yes, but you can live without him, heres womens aids number, heres a charity that'll help, etc.

'Ah I see. Apologies, I was getting wound up by the OP blaming a woman for her husband playing too much golf and wasn't reading posts properly!'

@SquirrelMadness

Well you're silly then getting yourself wound up, as my (ex) husband hasn't played golf once in his life 😂

I couldn't give a flying fig whether your husband has ever played golf. My point was that in a healthy relationship, each adult is responsible for their own behaviour and not for the behaviour of their partner. If you are genuine and seriously struggling to understand this I suggest you explore this with your therapist.

That's interesting to hear from a mum of boys, thank you.

Yes I absolutely agree men aren't born arseholes and all we can do as parents is do our very best to raise good people.

@SquirrelMadness but a woman can and does have a responsibility to walk away or not to pursue a relationship. That's common sense no? That's not saying she is to blame for a man's terrible life choices or behaviour. But there are plenty of threads on MN where the woman has met a no good boyfriend, had a baby, and then wonders why he won't change. She was partly responsible for that situation she is in. She could choose better.

There's a huge problem with this on MN.
The double standards when it comes to cheating or lack of sex in a relationship. The man is always the sex pest, and yes in some cases that is true, but it's not healthy to go round labelling every bloke who wants to have sex with his wide a sex pest. Sometimes women are the problem. But women don't want to hear that.

What happens is they learn their power. The ones with inate positive character traits such as high empathy, low selfishness and strength of will use it lightly and wisely, and even try to share it. The ones with poorer characters, the weak, the suggestible grab it with both hands, because it makes their lives easier and it gives them what they want.

Where have I blamed women for the bad behaviour of men and absolving dads of any responsibility for how their sons turn out?

Where have I said that parenting is only down to mothers?
Where have I said that working doesn’t mean you don’t parent?
Jesus wept.

I have no idea what you want from this thread, OP. You’re being very prickly with a lot of people - and over what? Concern that men are being maligned? Trust me, they’re fine.

The bit about mums of boys seems very confused and something of a red herring. Most of us know fantastic men/boys whether they’re our sons, husbands, brothers, fathers, whatever. That doesn’t stop the class of men being hugely problematic.

These ‘poor men’ threads blow my mind. It’s as if OPs have no concept of the power men have always had and still have over women. Just take a cursory glance back over the absolute shit-show that has been male-female dynamics over the millennia and then tell me that men are suffering from a few women holding them to account on MN. Men (as a class) are fine. (You should know…)

There are many reasons why people end up in bad relationships. Low self esteem, not understanding what a healthy relationship looks like due to upbringing, life experience, no support network, etc.

Some partners can be extremely manipulative. They might do an extremely good job of pretending to be attentive, loving etc. Then when the victim is trapped by children, marriage or just love and emotion, the bad behaviour can start.

Blaming people who are in bad relationships doesn't help, as it just damages their self esteem even further. Sometimes we need to re-learn, or learn for the first time, what a good relationship looks like.

I do think it would help to teach this in schools - what a good relationship looks like and how to set healthy boundaries etc. I think it's a social problem rather than some people being bad at choosing.

I agree OP.
There was a thread earlier where the OP clearly wanted to vent - justifiably- about her DP having messed up a work schedule which meant they couldn’t go on holiday as planned. Cue endless posts berating her DP as a shit, leave the bastard, etc. When the OP started to suggest he was actually quite nice and she didn’t want to leave him, some posters criticised her!

Spot on. It is about power. We all know power corrupts. In some ways, men have to work quite hard to step outside that and not abuse that power. Easier to just go with it, accept praise for basic things like taking care of your children etc.

Plenty of men do manage it though. Hence, you know, the fact we actually did get the vote. Couldn’t have done it without the good men. We have to keep holding men to account though as it’s easy for them to let it slide.

Also see the long rant at me just up thread, which I'm not going to quote as I think I've fed it enough. I hope the thread gets deleted, it's just deliberately baiting people.

Your post is a classic example of a straw man fallacy.
The thread discusses whether Mumsent has a significant number of posters who are anti-men. The consensus is that it does.

Well I think you're remarkable op.

For a woman who has been subjected to domestic violence to be strong enough to put a post out pointing out the suffering of men, by opposing apparently bitter and twisted MN female posters is commendable, if not unbelievable.

Oh no you're a bit misunderstood. I'm not prickly with people that disagree. That's fine and I wanted to hear both sides hence I posted! I'm prickly with people who are twisting my words and who are nasty / insulting to me first. I'm going to defend myself, especially when people are lying and saying I said offensive comments when I didn't. I'm glad this thread has both sides. That's the point of the thread :)

Where is this consensus then?

You see ‘anti-men’ where those of us with actual critical thinking skills see women holding men to account.

Thank you (I think)

There are good men in my life. Enough for me to know that not all men are horrible.

Yeah, you love the people who disagree. This was you on page one.