Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

[Daniagainagainagainagain]

Apologies for the grabby title. I've NC'd for this as I have a few running threads currently with very outing and personal details on.

Anyway back to the point.
I see SO many threads on here where the topic about the thread is about a guy. It's not even necessarily bad about the bloke in question, but so many many posters just seem to hate men. Not give them the benefit of the doubt. Tear them a new arsehole for merely posting on MN asking for advice. There was a thread recently about a woman seeing a really nice guy, a gentlemen as she described him where he had been separated for literally YEARS but wasn't divorced. Turns out there were cultural differences meaning divorce in that country is very rare. People kept saying 'throw him back in the sea' 'he's a liar' one poster called him a wanker.. there was no evidence that he was a wanker and the OP seemed happy with the guy. Just more people clutching for their moment to berate men. It's always the guys fault on here no matter what.

It's always the same posters more often than not berating men, shooting them down, and just hating them. I wonder, do these women posters have sons? If so, do you think your sons are exempt from such awful insults because 'my boy would never'? I can't imagine these posters talking about their sons like that. So do you pick and choose, is it one rule for your sons and one for all other men?

Before it labelled being 'cool' I have just got out of a 10 year abusive relationship where ex cheated multiple times to the point of police involvement. I am not naive to think some of these guys deserve what they get.

AIBU? To think there's huge double standards? To call strangers with no reason to, wankers, but to also think the son shines out of your son's arses?

I know I'll probably ruffle some feathers but I'd genuinely like to know. And yes I have DC.

People say all sorts of shit online they wouldn't say in reality, mumsnet is no different. I think loads of people love a "leave the bastard" narrative and don't read OPs properly 🤷‍♀️.

Neither is a huge issue, as I've pointed out. We're talking about a very tiny minority of men who commit homicide. Something like 5 or so per million.

Obviously it's still an issue, but not a major issue, and likewise not an issue that's likely to ever be completely resolved.

But the crucial point I'm making is that it's not indicative of societal misogyny, as it's not weighted towards women. I fact the opposite is true.

I'm proud to say the my married son is a good dad, never to busy to play with the kids, cook dinner or tidy up. He was never to proud to change a nappy or look after his wife and kids when they're ill.

My DiL told me that people have asked to have him when she's fed up of him 😁😎

Oh that old chestnut 😂

Im actually very unbothered and expected people like you to turn up, half the reason I posted. :)

Anyway, back to it!

There’s a lot of man bashing on here but also posters saying more positive stuff.

I’ve been married for over 30 years but I’ve never felt the DH was anything but a modern man. We always shared the household tasks. I never expected him to be a driver or an expert gardener or diy person. We respect each other’s careers. I expect to be mildly mocked if I say “Men!” as a barely audible criticism of his dishwasher stacking skills. I respect he never says ‘women!’ and has never expected me to dust or clean the bathroom unless he’s away. I think he is a good role model for DS - as am I - and I especially think this because we have careers not jobs. I respect others do things differently and wish them the happiness of having a life partner who is on the same page as them.

Meh, this is just the way people are. I think I read a poll once where something like 85% of people thought they were nice. Most people think they are a great person because that is who they want to be.

Womens’ (often) horrible experiences with men will affect their thinking when they respond to a post on here about cheating, abusive behaviour or being lazy at home etc. You can’t help but refer back to what you know.

It’s human nature to love your child and think the best of them.

Now just join the dots.

Yeah I think this too!

@Beljin

Obviously it's still an issue, but not a major issue, and likewise not an issue that's likely to ever be completely resolved.

How about male sexual violence towards women? Is that a 'major issue' or not in your opinion?

But the crucial point I'm making is that it's not indicative of societal misogyny, as it's not weighted towards women. I fact the opposite is true.

Again, how about male sexual violence? That is hugely weighted towards women when it comes to the victim's gender (sex, to be more accurate).

Would you say it's indicative of societal misogyny that despite rape and sexual assault of women being so commonplace (1 in 4 women are victims in their adult life in the UK) conviction rates are low and custodial sentences are woefully short?

Do you understand that murder rates are not the sole measure of violence against women?

YABU. I'm happily married to a great husband and I have a lovely teenage son. I also agree with about 98% of all the LTB responses on MN and have given many myself. MN has certainly opened my eyes to how many women are in relationships with terrible men. Responses are justifiably harsh, because they are responding about men who are bad enough to have threads posted about them on the Relationships board, not men in general.

Anyone who reads MN and concludes that women who tell an OP to LTB are 'man haters' is suffering from a serious lack of critical thinking.

Surely that’s just the basic bar of being a decent father and human being? Why are men celebrated for doing the bare minimum that women do day after day?

I absolutely agree. Awful behaviour should absolutely be called out! There's just some posters on here that call out the male int he scenario just because he's a male.

But a few posters have explained well why that may be. From just generally hating men, to lived experiences, so just straight up misandry.

It's not just about the LTB though.. is it?
It's about the misandry, the double standards, the judging one side of the story just because it's a male.

As lots of posters on here have also witnessed, it's a lot more than LTB.

Yes I love a positive thread, it's always refreshing to see, and they do exist of course!

Only a man would seriously think you can’t prove double standards without a spreadsheet. We women use our spidey senses, gut feelings and feminine mystique to suss out double standards.

You are talking about homicide. What about the DV statistics of aggression, coercion, sexual and financial exploitation, emotional and physical abuse?

@Daniagainagainagainagain could you please explain why you think women are to blame for staying with neglectful men, but not to blame for staying with abusive men? For someone who apparently doesn't like double standards, this seems to be incredibly hypocritical.

I am against victim blaming for victims of both neglect and assault. Why are your standards so inconsistent?

Is it just that we're do used to seeing women put down/ mocked/ derided, that's it's more noticeable when it's men in the firing line?

Fwiw, I have a ds and dd. I don't think either of them are perfect or beyond reproach. I've yet to see how they will be in relationship, but hopefully they have learned from dh and I. Dh is also not perfect, but neither am I.

🤣

Haven’t read the whole thread yet, but this stopped me in my tracks.

Are you saying that you see no problem with prostitution and the men that pay for sex? You think women choose this ‘job’ out of a reasonable range of options? You think paid ‘consent’ is any sort of real consent? Utterly clueless.

As for your half-baked comment about child maintenance. Well, I guess you’re an MRA.

Violence isn’t an infectious disease so cannot be an epidemic or pandemic.

Epidemics/pandemics are a force of nature which is the opposite of violence which is purely manmade and unnatural.

I really dislike using the terms to describe violence.

What a hero 😆

@eggandchip

A single man got called a rapist on her because he saw a professional escort.My comment was. If a woman is doing a job she likes and wants to do and not hurting any one thats ok on MN. But if a man pays this woman and shes happy to do so because thats her job he`s called a rapist.

How can a punter be sure that the women he pays for sex is not a victim of trafficking, abuse or coercion? He can't. There is no possible way he can know that. And in the sex work industry a massive number of women are victims of those things.

Do you think a decent man would take the risk that he is contributing to a woman being forced to have sex with him? Whether through trafficking, abuse or coercion she is going through behind the scenes?

Would a decent man really risk that, just to have sex on demand?

@GettingStuffed

He was never to proud to change a nappy or look after his wife and kids when they're ill.

I find ‘proud’ a very telling word here. Why would he be too proud to do these basic obligations? Implies some sort of elevated status that he’s gracious enough to overlook.

The bar for men’s behaviour is generally low. MN is one place where it’s regularly called out. I, for one, find it refreshing.

@GettingStuffed

I'm proud to say the my married son is a good dad, never to busy to play with the kids, cook dinner or tidy up. He was never to proud to change a nappy or look after his wife and kids when they're ill.

Your son sounds lovely, please don't think I'm suggesting others or making a personal remark about him.

But can you see how some of us may find it depressing that in 2024 a man is so disproportionally praised for doing things that should surely be expected and are absolutely already expected of women?

I've never seen someone praise a woman for never being 'too proud to change a nappy' or look after her own children when they are ill, for example.

Again this isn't a jibe at your son who sounds fab. I'm just pointing out the gulf between what is expected of / praised in women and men.

I would concentrate on fixing myself and my family in your situation OP. I wonder why you are deflecting by starting argumentative threads.