Mums of sons. (Hard hat on for this)

[Daniagainagainagainagain]

Apologies for the grabby title. I've NC'd for this as I have a few running threads currently with very outing and personal details on.

Anyway back to the point.
I see SO many threads on here where the topic about the thread is about a guy. It's not even necessarily bad about the bloke in question, but so many many posters just seem to hate men. Not give them the benefit of the doubt. Tear them a new arsehole for merely posting on MN asking for advice. There was a thread recently about a woman seeing a really nice guy, a gentlemen as she described him where he had been separated for literally YEARS but wasn't divorced. Turns out there were cultural differences meaning divorce in that country is very rare. People kept saying 'throw him back in the sea' 'he's a liar' one poster called him a wanker.. there was no evidence that he was a wanker and the OP seemed happy with the guy. Just more people clutching for their moment to berate men. It's always the guys fault on here no matter what.

It's always the same posters more often than not berating men, shooting them down, and just hating them. I wonder, do these women posters have sons? If so, do you think your sons are exempt from such awful insults because 'my boy would never'? I can't imagine these posters talking about their sons like that. So do you pick and choose, is it one rule for your sons and one for all other men?

Before it labelled being 'cool' I have just got out of a 10 year abusive relationship where ex cheated multiple times to the point of police involvement. I am not naive to think some of these guys deserve what they get.

AIBU? To think there's huge double standards? To call strangers with no reason to, wankers, but to also think the son shines out of your son's arses?

I know I'll probably ruffle some feathers but I'd genuinely like to know. And yes I have DC.

Yep. I can confirm that my 55y husband and 22y son are unharmed by any ‘anti-men’ comments on MN.

Yes, and my son-in-law does parent their children when he is home. I realise this must be disappointing to hear as it goes against your agenda. *eye roll

People aren’t going to post that they’re living the dream or things are going great, so you are more likely to see anti men posts because it’s a woman’s forum. And in the same way, the people who comment will comment because they’ve been through similar. So it’s not really indicative I don’t think personally. I do hate the namalt thing because of course they’re not all dickheads!!! And to be fair with some of the people on mn, women don’t always cover themselves in glory either, myself included 😅

thats very true, especially when its a woman needed more love the threads usually go lifes to short have an affair etc, but heaven forbid its the other way round and then its omg how dare you, obviously in some threads there is more context with regards to the relationship, but in some there have been example of this type of thinking.

"I know we shouldn't slap someone for being a blithering idiot but some women on here seem to assume their blokes don't need to do anything except shine their knobs golf balls all day rather than do some housework or look after their children or deal with their own mother. So a lot of posters call out the knobshining and tell the blithering idiot to dumb the arse. Quite fair."

@Daniagainagainagainagain this is the original post that you replied to, saying it's just as much the woman's fault. I copied and pasted because I couldn't quote two posts at once.

So you think that if a man is merely neglectful, doesn't do anything around the house etc, then the woman is to blame. But if the man is actually abusive then the woman is no longer to blame.

What about if neglect is a precursor to abuse? Is the woman to blame then for staying through the initial neglect? Abuse usually starts with subtle, small things.

What about if the wife of the neglectful husband is financially tied to her husband? Or staying for the sake of the children? Is she still to blame for him doing nothing other than shine his golf balls?

To be clear I think the only person to blame in both situations is the person behaving badly, the person with the neglectful or abusive behaviour.

I don't see how you can say a woman is to blame for staying with a neglectful partner, but not to blame for staying with an abusive partner. Doesn't make sense.

In both cases, the person behaving badly is fully responsible.

Poor menz 😥

@Daniagainagainagainagain you’re getting very aggressive. You asked for people’s opinions but those POV are making you mad it seems!

My agenda? You're the one who was blaming women for the bad behaviour of men and absolving dads of any responsibility for how their sons turn out.

I'm a boy mum and take MN with a pinch of salt. My DH is a fab guy but I don't think he's a special case more a bit like remembering a bad meal somewhere this is what people relay rather then all the run of the mill decent places so actually my partner or husband is a decent bloke and just cracks on with life. So with that juxtaposition you only get the snapshot of bad blokes and you get women who really have had a tough time.
Generally the ones who are posting all men are x are vocal with it which makes it seem as if the whole place has that attitude rather then the reality.
There are definitely rubbish blokes however. I would never defend one of my boys if I found out he was being lazy as a adult and taking a partner for granted. Its definitely not the way they are being brought up.

My MIL isn't good but given my DH and SIL both give their mum a wide berth in my case it's definitely not a MIL bashing perspective. In fact she's very good at teaching me all the things I shouldn't do if my boys decide to get married or have a long term life partner and become a MIL!

In the UK there are twice as many men killed by other men than women killed by men. So to claim this is some kind of gendered issue or mysogyny is simply being untethered from reality. If anything women are actually far safer.

The truth is that homicide rates are extremely low, but until we manage to breed the perfect human, with no violent tendencies, unfortunately there will always be some violent crimes.

That would only be true if women were murdering women at the same rate that men murder men, yet we don't. Men murder men and men murder women, seems to be a common denominator here. 🤔

I definitely see there’s a particularly strong anti-men sentiment amongst many posters but I think there’s a much wider theme of knee-jerk unhelpful “advice”.

Problems in your relationship? LTB
Problems with family? Go NC
Problems with your friends? Block them, find new friends.
Problems at work? Quit

There definitely are situations where people do need to be presented with a difficult truth and encouraged to do the hard thing. But the “burn it all to the ground” style of advice all to often doesn’t engage with the detail of the situation and is just easy to dish out nonsense from keyboard warrior agony aunts.

I haven't read the thread about the kicking yet, and I'm glad the OP of that is getting support.
But very recently there was a man posting who was clearly being treated terribly by his wife. No real grey area there. But within the first few responses, and then repeated regularly, people were posting 'I'd like to hear her side of the story', so immediately doubting him. And there were the posts saying ' she's probably exhausted, I bet she had to do everything'. But it turned out that no, he did everything. But that was ignored or assumed to be a lie.
That really wouldn't have happened if a woman had posted the exact same OP about her husband's treatment of her.

The only agenda was yours. Making out that parenting is only down to mothers.

This started because of a comment blaming women for the way they raise sons. It was pointed out that children have 2 parents. How could it only be ones fault?

Then you claimed that usually the men are out working. It’s since been pointed out that working doesn’t mean you don’t parent. And that many mothers work. So still both mother and father would be responsible for the child’s upbringing.

You claimed that men working meant they weren’t bringing the children up and that you daughter was a sahm. Again, it was pointed out that even if only the man works both are raising the kids. But you say he does parent when he isn’t at work. As he should. The only person claiming men aren’t responsible for parenting was you. That was your agenda.

So back to the point. If parenting is the issue when it comes to men who behave poorly, it’s not just down to the mother. It’s down to both parents. Glad we agree.

Sorry - who is it doing all the murdering again?

Look, I have some great men in my life including a wonderful DH. I’m not in the least bit bitter and I don’t have any kind of ‘agenda’, but I can see that - as a class of people men tend to be the more violent, more aggressive, more problematic. We also still live in a world that favours (largely straight, white) men, patriarchy and all that, so I really don’t think a few anti-men posts on mumsnet is doing them any lasting damage as a sex. Maybe a few get their feelings hurt - not nice but honestly I’m not going to lose sleep over it.

I’ve always found the double standards thing to be bullshit too. There are as many posters here who are determined that a woman’s place is in the wrong, and who passionately defend a man’s wife to do zero housework/ parenting because ‘they work’, to sleep in a separate room from their newborn and never be disturbed because ‘they work’, to maintain inappropriate friendships with younger female colleagues (don’t be so controlling!), to watch porn, to visit stripclubs etc etc - as there are ‘man bashing’ ones. Don’t get me wrong there’s plenty of both - but they’re different posters with different opinions so it’s not ‘double standards’ is it?

Haven't read the thread, but it is because I have 3 sons that I hold men to such high standards. I don't want my boys to grow into angry, inadequate men.
So much of what is called "double standards" is just failing to recognise the vast inequalities men and women face. Women are tired of being as agony aunts, then berated for not giving the advice permission the man was looking for. Women don't exist to make men's lives easier.

I'm a mum of 3 boys and I'm trying to raise them to be gentlemen because some of the men not all.. I did meet one who was OK but most of them are awful. Asking for nudes, being crude before you have even exchanged a few messages let alone met.. talking to loads of women.. the ghosting.. Asking for money etc. Tbh I've had enough

I do have a disdain for men in general and my son is not exempt as I see the self entitlement that society allows him come to the fore quite often. However, I am attempting to support him grow to see this and reflect upon his own behaviour.

Oh and I have to work additionally hard as it turns out his father is a misogynist who hates women.

@Beljin

In the UK there are twice as many men killed by other men than women killed by men. So to claim this is some kind of gendered issue or mysogyny is simply being untethered from reality. If anything women are actually far safer.

Men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators of violence against both women and men.

Male violence against other men is a huge issue.

Male violence against women is a huge issue.

What's the common denominator? Too many men being violent, in massively disproportionate rates in comparison to the gender split in the population.

So it is a 'gendered issue', isn't it? In that one gender (well, sex class to be accurate) is overwhelmingly more likely to inflict violence than the other.

Exactly. It took me a while to grasp that this is actually a woman-bashing thread, what with all the faux stupidity about 'not understanding' you can't assume members of a site with eight million unique monthly users are all the same. By the time I stopped reading, 'women do it too' had made its inevitable appearance along with 'blame the mothers' and a few takes on #BeKindToMen.

Maybe OP and her/his sidekicks could go back to whatever Mens Rights forum they came from, to discuss the merits of making women's voices illegal like the Afghan government just has.

Yes, the common denominator is it's men committing the violence. Men are more prone to violence than women. But the target is actually far less likely to be a woman than a man.

Also, the percentage of people - or men if you will - who commit homicide is actually very low. There is no pandemic or emergency, most certainly not for women. It's just that violent humans exist and we'll never entirely get rid of them.

Tbh if my son was aggreesive, violent or abusive in a relationship with partner I would call him much worse things than a wanker.

Some men are great, some are shit. You just need to call things their real name.

I was about to post the same when I saw your reply HAHA. Christ.

@Beljin

Yes, the common denominator is it's men committing the violence. Men are more prone to violence than women. But the target is actually far less likely to be a woman than a man.

The violence is a gendered issue though, isn't it. You've said so yourself in the statement above, in different words. It was odd to claim otherwise previously.

Also, the percentage of people - or men if you will - who commit homicide is actually very low. There is no pandemic or emergency, most certainly not for women.

You're speaking about murder.

The pandemic of male violence against women and girls isn't limited to murder though, surely you understand that?

97% of women are sexually harassed in their lifetime, 1 in 4 are raped or sexually assaulted in their adult life. By men.

You don't think that's a pandemic?