To not have apologised to people near us about my toddler's behaviour on plane ?

[yellowandredcar]

My toddler was just a bit fed up of travelling not silently sitting on the plane. She was a bit loud and excited at times. At times we had to keep telling her to sit down as she tried to stand on her seat. There were many other kids making noise too. We did our very best to keep her quiet and keep her happy. She cried occasionally and occasionally made some noise. It wasn't excessive but the amount you'd expect when there's a small child on a plane.

I noticed people looking and didn't feel like apologising because it was nothing extreme and also she wasn't encroaching on their space.

The man in front of me reclined his seat immediately before we even took off. So I didn't think he deserved any kind of apology about my kids making some noise occasionally.

Also, we were doing our best. We were not ignoring our children or allowing bad behaviour. So I don't see what I need to apologise for. I just ignored the looks but felt like they may have expected an apology. I could be wrong of course.

I have apologised in the past for my kids. If they've kicked the seat in front of it they walk into someone's path etc. but I don't think it's necessary to apologise for children not being silent for a couple of hour flight.

Would you just always apologise because you have a child with you who's made a noise ?

Reclining should only be done at night time - why on earth do you need to recline the seat during the day? The person behind is significantly impacted by that. I never do it and never allowed my DC to do it either.

What does "fitting in" mean precisely?

There are so many poorly-behaved adults around - getting drunk, swearing, being aggressive to staff, blocking others, obviously tut-tutting or commenting on other people, in groups loudly talking across others.

Children would really have to go some to rival a lot of the adult behaviour you see nowadays.

To be honest I think the young couple was being unreasonable, if they expected an apology for normal behaviour and parents doing their best to control it.

I think you are really vilifying this young couple. All they did was glance over a few times which is a natural response/instinct when you hear some noise. They didn’t call you out, didn’t kick off, didn’t complain, didn’t say anything, they did nothing wrong, yet you’re calling them unreasonable for expecting an apology! I can’t see anywhere in your thread where they acted as if they wanted an apology. You have just made this up. To call them unreasonable is SO unfair.

I'd disagree that during all take-off you are on climb-out - as on the runway that's not so, but so what? Take off ends much earlier than climb-out - your can certainly recline during parts of increasing altitude, typically was once the place has reached a safe manoeuvring altitude.

As I say, I'm sure I remember an FAA regulation indicating 1500 feet - but could be wrong; and this would be less than one minute.

Screens also have to be put away during take-off and landing, and I've never seen crew concerned about people getting their club screens and watching them after about a minute or so after takeoff - but will make a clear announcement and direct instantly if people stand up while taxying to stand.

I don't really see how its connected in any case, reclining is perfectly legitimate and to be expected, whilst anyone making noise enough to anoy is not.

Agreed, most these are completely unacceptable - including children making more noise than other passengers. Tut-tutting usually is in response to breaking social etiquette, so if you see it a lot, you might want to think about it.

People are so intolerant. On a plane you are allowed to recline your seat. That’s why it has the recline function. Toddlers are also allowed to travel and be toddler-like. That’s why child plane tickets are available. If you expect a silent flight with lots of space, pay for first class, put in headphones or just don’t travel.

She didn't inflict. Her toddler was noisy. And a noisy toddler is much more stressful for the parent than for anyone else on the plane. They should have offfered her help or a gin amd tonic like the kind lady sat next to me on my last flight with my crying toddler did! :-)

Is this your own made up belief or is it what cabin crew has told you? They certainly expect passengers to not cause a disturbance, but I've no idea where you get this from?

If you look at 1st and business cabins you'll find most seats in some sort of recline the entire flight. If reclining seats are installed in other cabins, the same is not suddenly not expected - the only reason your thinking this way is you. believe the space belongs to the person behind - it doesn't - its actually the right of the person to recline and use that space.

Intolerance goes both ways. Most passengers should be able to tolerate sitting in a reasonably comfortable upright position.

The recline function enables reclining, basic courtesy determines when and how you use it.

I'd far rather be sat next to noisy little ones than the man I sat next to on a recent long haul flight; he dominated the arm rest, threw all his rubbish on the floor by my seat and put his feet under the seat in front of me rather than the seat in front of him.

I recline my seat immediately too due to spinal issue that makes sitting bolt upright for hours painful and debilitating.

HNRTFT but the fact you have created this post ,suggests to me that a little voice in your head is telling you that your child was noisy and disruptive! What is your problem with a quick apology…it’s just good manners and zero effort.

Exactly. Jesus I didn't know the threshold for basic courtesy and manners was so high.

‘Can’t control your kids’?

Tell us, Mary Poppins, how does one ‘control’ a tired, crying, restless two-year-old? What’s your secret? Does it involve opiates?

Duct tape. Works every time.

But then people still aren't happy and moan and side-eye you under the pretence of being concerned.

No pleasing them 😂.

I wish more parents would do this: it's a clever thing to do. I once had a woman sit next to me with her five-year-old next to her by the window. The moment she sat down she said to me 'I know what you're thinking and I'd be thinking the exact same thing in your shoes. I've explained to him why we all have to sit still for four hours and I've explained we're going to play quietly and then have a nap, but I apologise in advance if we disturb you.' She was absolutely on top of him and he had lovely manners and although I'm sure he got bored and a bit whiny at one point, I can't remember and didn't feel pissed off — because she'd really clearly done all she could.

Parents who allow their children to stand on seats and shriek are clearly not on top of their kids and deserve all the side-eye they get — and I think OP knows that and that's probably why she's posted, in the hope we'll all say that of course no one should ever care how children behave on planes.

This!

People’s expectations of toddlers are often way too high … and I’ve had far more adults annoying me on flights than young children… drinking too much, taking loudly during a night flight, pulling on the back of my seat every few minutes etc… but for some reason it’s socially acceptable to glare at parents of toddlers when they’re just toddlers and just making a bit of noise / crying. I don’t get it.

My DD aged about 18mths once cried for the duration of the landing..: I felt really embarrassed but nothing we did calmed her down. At the end of the flight a lady came up to me and said, one day you’ll look back at this and laugh! It was v kind of her and I wish more adults were like that!!

Loads of people hate this. I would only recline my seat if it was night time or I was ill. If I needed to do it for any reason other than night time sleep, I’d let the person behind me know first.
Its really rude to shove you seat into someone’s knees without giving them prior warning.

Parents who allow their children to stand on seats and shriek are clearly not on top of their kids
agree with this, cannot stand it when kids are allowed to stand/climb on seats

But we weren't allowing it, we were stopping it.

Why is the perception of the young couple the reasonable one and my perception that it was within reasonable limits is the wrong one, I wonder ? Why are they right for their ( presumed by me ) judgement.

If my kids had really kicked off, I would absolutely have apologised to everyone. It wasn't the case{

My kids are grown up now but I still have shivers remembering a 3 hour flight where my child had a full 3 hour screaming tantrum ! It didn’t matter what I tried to do to distract / bribe it just seemed to make him scream more so on the end I had to just ignore him and hope he tired himself out. He fell asleep about 5 minutes before we had to wake him to put him back in seat for landing so then more screams. It was so stressful but a gorgeous elderly man came up to me and put his hand on my arm and told me not to worry and “we’ve all been there “ he nearly made me cry as there was a lot of tutting around me . Since then whenever I do a flight and have noisy children around me I always remember that man and try to be kind. Sometimes you cannot prevent screaming tantrums - I consider myself a good and attentive parent and my kids all turned out to be good human beings despite some screaming tantrums back in the day !

Probably because the young couple haven’t really done anything unreasonable?

I don't know why you keep banging on about some fellow reclining his seat - they are two separate issues. Your toddler disturbed the whole plane presumably. Yes, you should have apologised. Oh, but he was rude therefore I don't have to, is ridiculous.

This. Keep to your values and let others keep to theirs. If permitted at a particular stage in a journey, anyone is perfectly entitled to recline their seat, that comes with air travel.
If I was you I would have said a quick sorry for the noise to everyone.