Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

[upoutandin87]

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

Surely as a good friends you wouldn’t book a 10 day holiday away with your friend knowing your friend has no idea quite how challenging your child finds certain situations and that they do have violent outbursts.

On the plus side OP. You get to go home eventually. I’m sure more could be done to try and meet the needs of the child but in the end, this is a temporary hell for you.

I wouldn’t go home but I would just put distance between you. Say ‘Thought it would do us both good to have some family time, so Thurs, Sat and Sun we’re having some days out.’

Even if you want to lounge by the pool, go down at a different time. Wave from afar, and head down in to your book.

That’s some emotional blackmail horseshit. They are undoubtedly finding it infinitely more tough than OP, but that’s their child. OP and her family are under precisely zero obligation to suck it up and be miserable in solidarity.

They should have informed OP as to the behavioural issues before she and her family used up valuable leave and spent money on this holiday.

I wouldn’t fly home but i’d (reluctantly) give up on my poolside lounging and accept i needed to be up and out every morning. Take your family on days out and trips etc. Basically see as little as humanly possible of them until you leave. I get that this is really hard for them but they haven’t been straight with you.

I have a child with PDA and complex PTSD. I agree usual strategies for managing behaviour do not work. It might look like shit parenting but actually sometimes nothing works and usual boundaries etc make it worse.

The only thing I agree with is they should have told you.

This. The OP paid for a holiday. Other people need to parent their kids, whatever the problems, so that they don’t spoil it for others.

Book elsewhere, OP, or go out every day.

Stop spending time with them. And if they ask why, tell them.

Unfortunately, these threads usually descend into SEN parenting bingo....

Just ineffective parents
I'm autistic and I don't do that
SEN or not, they just need to be told/a good hiding
Everyone's ND these days
etc

Aaaaand this is why I holiday alone with DS in the back of beyond. (FWIW, they absolutely should have told you what their DC was like - no excuse for that).

I sympathise, I have cut ties with a friend as her parenting was absolutely unbelievable. Her daughter actually groped my then 14 yr old son and she didn’t take it serious at all, said I should be sympathetic because she was ND and ASD but she never ever corrected her, told her no or anything and she was completely out of control. Same thing, spitting, swearing, violence etc. in the end I had to put my kids first as days out with them was hell

Change accomodation.
Hit the beach.
Bugger that.

I can’t speak to their parenting style or having a child with ASD but the crux of the issue is that they deliberately didn’t tell how challenging their dd’s behaviour is and effectively ruined your holiday before it’d even begun.

Completely unacceptable, selfish and inconsiderate. You’ve paid £££ for them to knowingly subject you and your family to their child’s violent outbursts. I’d have to reconsider our friendship if I was you OP.

That's what I was going to say.

Absolutely fair enough to distance yourselves as much as you can on holiday but I'm sure they're at a total loss as to what to do. Your strategies are probably not going to help this child as they would have already tried that before she was permanently excluded from school.

It sounds really unfair they have taken her on holiday.

Not just unfair on you but unfair on the poor girl who clearly cannot cope with it.

Parenting her won't mean she can take no any better. It may not change her reaction to no. But they shouldn't be expecting you to do as she says all the time to prevent her reactions. And she'll never have the chance to learn to accept no if she's never given it.

Also if they know she's about to throw your stuff in the pool they should stop her. They need to be watching her like a hawk because they know what the risks of her being upset and overwhelmed are.

This situation isn't fair on anyone tbh. Least of all a disabled child who was already struggling in a familiar environment being taken somewhere strange.

Are you sharing a villa or at a hotel complex? I think you have to take time out from being with the other family as much as possible (older children could still choose to hang out potentially) Shared villa will be harder to do this but not impossible if your happy to have days out and be up front you need some space without being unkind.

THIS. My two older kids were usually very well behaved but my little one is off the wall and sounds like this girl.

This is the OP and family's precious (and likely costly) holiday, too. Not group therapy.

The other family should have been up front about the difficulties before the holiday was booked.

OP, if you cannot change accommodation, I would offer to take their older children with you on outings or to the beach, while the six-year-old and her parents do something else. Six people's experience shouldn't be ruined by the issues of one.

The parents chose to have a third child and the outcome is unfortunate but it is not everyone else' problem.

Agreed it's infuriating.

What your friend is doing is negligent. And I really sympathise with people who are navigating their way through parenting a child who has is ND but this is not parenting. By effectively deciding that their child should have absolutely no boundaries then they are raising a menace to society. All sounds very dramatic I know but it's evident that they haven't sought any kind of help.

And it is not the child's fault. It sounds like the child has PDA and for the parents to stumble through raising her like this is just so awful, awful for the child's siblings and obviously, now, awful for you and your little family.

They were wrong not to tell you. If you can afford it at all then please seek alternative accommodation. Eurocamp have an end of summer sale and there are lots of good deals there where you could find something decent for relatively low cost. You shouldn't have to sacrifice your whole family holiday because these people have just decided to do away with kind of boundary setting for their child.

As much as I empathise with how hard it must be for them, they damn well should have told you about this so you could make an informed decision whether to go or stay.

It also sounds to me like the husband wants a break and just expects you to pick up the slack for him. I couldnt have a holiday where my kids were being hit and verbally abused and my stuff was potentially getting broken or ruined. I'd rather stay home thanks.

Imagine if your phone had been in your bag?- who would have paid for that to be replaced?

Leave the accommodation or tell them you need a break and then go out somewhere, anywhere, and dont tell them where you are going. It's perfectly ok to want family time on holiday and I think I'd be saying gently that I couldnt cope with this behaviour and a boundary would be drawn.

This is the thing- if they had TOLD you about this before, they wouldnt now be in this situation and it would have avoided all this awkwardness.

Agree with some PP about how it sounds very like autism with a pda profile. It helps to view their DDs meltdowns as panic attacks that she absolutely cannot help. Traditional parenting of reward good behaviour and punish bad will never work in those circumstances - imagine you were having a panic attack - would logic and reasoning, or even punishment, work on you, even as an adult, to snap out of that one and/or not have another in future?

Accommodations and trying to avoid meltdowns for both her and everyone's sake is often the best strategy above all else; and to achieve that will often mean 'letting her get her way'. Making things a game or a choice so she has control and therefore is less likely to get anxious might well help.

But 100% agree that everyone going on holiday with a child with such needs should understand her needs and agree in advance to being willing to accommodate them with kindness and patience. Them not giving you this chance to decide is unreasonable, of course it is.

It's very likely her meltdowns will be worse than 'normal' right now because of the transition and change in routine.

You have a DC with ASD so I am sure you MUST be aware of how difficult parenting some ASD children can be - and of the existence of PDA. If you have known them to be caring and engaged parents to their older DC then it is unlikely they are just "not parenting properly" and all would be well with their youngest's behaviour if only they'd be stricter with her behaviour.

If they are friends good enough to holiday with then it is strange they haven't shared with you before how challenging they are finding their child's behaviour.

I honestly don't know if there is anything you can do to support your friends and their DC. I'd expect trying to be supportive, listen to them, be as patient and flexible as you could would be a start. If you don't want to/can't handle being around them on your holiday (which is precious family time I understand and with older teenagers may not be many more to follow) then you will have to remove yourselves - take older DC to a spa or find another pool or go to the beach or on a day trip and tell your friends that you will catch up with them later/for dinner/whatever.

Is their DC bored if they are hanging out with their mum/mum's friend and much older child? Would they be able to join in any child activities?

As a parent of a child with ASD I have to say I think their lack of parenting is cruel.

It's pretty routine to be advised that Autistic kids in particular need routines and to know what is going to be happening. Of course, all are different, but I do think a high percentage of kids with ASD would find that really stressful. This state of constant flux could be really adding to their child's behaviours.

It's nothing short of lazy and neglectful to not feed your kids meals and literally nobody would advise a parent to never say no!

They sound like pretty crappy parents, all in all.

It's nothing short of lazy and neglectful to not feed your kids meals and literally nobody would advise a parent to never say no!

I agree with this.

If normal parenting strategies don’t work there has to be at least some kind of alternative strategy other than “we just give her what she wants” and letting her hit people and swear at them.