Holiday with another family and behaviour of their ASD child

[upoutandin87]

Currently on holiday with my family and another family (old friends) they have 2 older children same age as my kids and they also now have a 6 yr old. We have holidayed with them before but not since the youngest was born. Youngest is ND (autism and suspected ADHD). My son is 15 and autistic so I know about ASD but there DD seems out of control and we can't cope with it. She swears spits hits and throws furniture if she doesn't get her own way - there is no routine and she basically gets what she wants - she slapped my DD earlier today and called her a f b because she didn't want to go in the pool with her - my friends answer to this was you cannot say no to her - if you don't do what she wants she kicks off so we have to let her do what she wants. My friends DH and 2 older kids can't cope with her so they go to the beach and take my 15 yr old with them - I prefer being by the pool so I stay with them and my DD 17. We honestly don't know what to do as our holiday is being ruined by a 7 yr old. She threw my bag in the pool yesterday and I was fuming. We are trying to do stuff without them but they seem to be constantly appearing - they never raise their voice at their DD or tell her to stop as negative language makes her worse. Last night their 15 yr old told my son that she has been permanently excluded from her primary school and she currently has no school place from September - I was aware she has had several exclusions for violence but only short term exclusions but her parents have not mentioned to us about the exclusion. My DH wants us to cut all ties with them until they start parenting their child properly. We are only 3 days in to a 10 day holiday and are tempted to fly home to get away from them. I feel so bad as I am an SEN parent myself but they won't take any advice from us about maybe having a routine and setting boundaries. I so feel for them as they are completely broken by her behaviour but I don't actually know what I can do to help.

I would do this. I’m not without sympathy for them, but you should have been told so you could make a choice about this holiday. It’s going to be ruined and the friendship over forever if you stay I think.

Nope - it’s not OP’s job to have a miserable holiday so she can be “supportive and kind.” It’s totally unacceptable of her friend to not mention her daughter’s behavior back when OP was thinking about going on holiday with her friend’s family.

OP, I’d find a different place to stay and only see your friend a few more times this week by yourself. Tell your husband you’re not going to argue about whether they’re bad parents or not, but you’re not going to make the rest of the family be around them, either. He can stay with your kids while you and your friend have lunch or something.

Tell your friend that you understand she’s in a very difficult situation, but you’re not going let her daughter’s behavior have a negative effect on your husband and children’s holiday. (Don’t say “ruin their holiday,” because that will set her off.)

I don't think they have been fair. They failed to tell you that things are so awful at home that one of their other children wants to move out. They failed to mention she has been permanently excluded from school for violence.

You're getting the truth from their 15yo son. So you shouldn't feel bad for doing your own thing every day.

I have an autistic child whose behaviour can be impulsive and challenging. We do however have calm but firm boundaries and limits. I would be beyond mortified should my child hit your child and swear. Likely we would either go home or move to different accommodation. I agree that the parents sound broken. Likely they feel powerless, but that doesn’t mean you have to subject your kids to their child not coping. I don’t even expect my child’s sibling to tolerate agressive behaviour, whatever the reason. I’m the adult and I have to use whatever strategies I have at my disposal to descalate, calm and educate my autistic child, whilst ensuring other people are kept safe.

I agree that at the least you need to separate from them or find a way to keep the children separate.

I think both you and the other couple are BU.

You because you seem determined to make this a parenting issue when it sounds like unmet needs of an autistic person with PDA.

Them because it’s nuts to take an autistic child with PDA on a joint holiday and expect it not to be a hellscape for everyone.

I have a PDA ASC 7 year old.

YANBU to not expect this level of disruption to your holiday and to expect something to change.

YABU to talk about "parenting properly" and to make assumptions that the behaviour is due to this rather than their disability.

It is still a parenting issue though isn’t it.

It’s poor parenting to put their chid in that situation so ops not wrong.

Also a poor friend so let op pay and go on holiday not knowing what was about to come.

If even one of their older kids want to move out because it’s so bad and have to lock their door and ops been led to believe the child just has some struggles till now.

SEN parent, My son was awful when he was younger, used to bite, scream, have meltdowns, use to want to control us and situations.

He was parented and taught that these behaviours weren't acceptable. He is now a nice polite 13 year old. Unfortunately if you allow the behaviour it continues and they get bigger and stronger

Shite parents- Who knows?

Shite friends- Absolutely!

They've let you waste your money, annual leave, time, ruin your kids holidays. They absolutely should have pre warned you of her behaviour and the fact they expect you all to constantly appease her and put up with it. I would Absolutely be telling them that too- they can control their behaviour if not their daughters.

Agree it sounds awful but also agree with PPs that for some kids with PDA type disorders the “usual” strategies you would deploy with other children and that would help an autistic child do not work.

get through the week as best you can, and then don’t holiday with them again. I’m sure it’s stressful for them too.

Autism isn't an illness,it is also a huge spectrum and some people with autism will never have the capacity to learn
That said the Op doesn't have to put up with it.

Why should this family be expected to use the HOLIDAY they paid for to be abused by anyone, including a SEN child? I would be far from understanding if a “friend” knowingly brought me into their messy family dynamics when I had paid good money to relax on a pricey holiday.

Yes, that’s a fair point. But the OP is likely wrong in blaming the poor behaviour on the parents. You can’t teach a PDA kiddo to behave using conventional parenting techniques - I have the scars from trying!

Sorry, that was to @OhmygodDont

Borrow or beg the money for another accommodation tonight.. Do not feel bad.

Cynically, I do wonder if they wanted to holiday with another family in the hope it would dilute the situation and there would be more pairs of hands to help manage her. The dad heading off to the beach, presumably with the expectation you will stick around to support your friend with their DD has me raising an eyebrow.

Honestly, I'd be leaving them to it and doing whatever I could to salvage the holiday for my family, and I would give an honest (as kind as possible) explanation as to why.

I think you should find alternative accomodation. Breaking the news doesn't have to be tied up with a load of judgment, it doesn't sound like you see much of them anymore and it's probably clear to everyone this arrangement won't be repeated.

There's probably a fair chance the change in routine and presence of unfamiliar people are particularly upsetting her and the parents are wondering how to broach the subject with you! Why not just say "our presence doesn't seem to be helping X, we're going to stay elsewhere / do separate activities". If they really are insistent you can just tell them that's a polite way of saying you can't put up with your children being attacked regardless of the circumstances.

Look, whether the parent's parenting strategies are working or not is not something you are ever going to be able fix, OP. They will parent their child as they see fit to as most parents do, so its pointless to be fretting about that.

What you can do, however, is not allow this to ruin your holiday. I would be moving accommodation and having a firm but gentle word that you can no longer cope with this behaviour and that your holiday is the tiny portion of the year when you get to relax and you need that time. Then I would move to another place.

If you cant afford to do that, I'd be making it clear that we as a family need space and time to relax and I would be going out and not telling them where we were going so we could have space away from them. Do not ever go away with them ever again, obvs.

* I* know about ASD

You know about ASD in relation to your own child.

You know nothing about ASD in relation to their child.

You've spent 3 days in their lives and are now an expert dishing out advice?

It sounds like you shouldn't have gone on holiday together. They must have thought they'd get empathy and understanding from you but they've guessed that wrong.

Sounds like a PDA profile. If you’re finding it tough just imagine what she is going through. Maybe don’t come onto Mumsnet to discuss their special needs child and be a better friend.

I would be heartbroken if my friend did this to me.
Sincerely, mum of an autistic PDA child.

I wouldn't stay. I'd just make my excuses, say we needed a break and go and book an air bnb in the neighbouring town.

They may or may not be bad parents, but they are absolutely bad friends. Op and her husband should have been made aware of how challenging their child can be before they booked annual leave and paid out money on a holiday that has been throughly unenjoyable for them so far.

I’m not surprised your husband is furious - despite some believing that any other reaction beyond ‘oh, poor them’ and sucking it up in the name of being ‘kind’ and ‘supportive’ to be unreasonable, that’s an entirely valid reaction.

You can’t fix the situation for them, it sounds awful and no doubt your friends are at their wits’ end with the child.

That isn’t your priority though, and they were not honest and upfront with you when booking. You are perfectly within your rights to seek other accommodation so you can enjoy what’s left of your holiday.

Sounds like their older children have had enough too, it’s very sad.

Doesn't that work both ways, though?