To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

[Kianai]

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

It’s extremely naive to think that male violence against women is caused by physical strength.

You don’t need to be stronger than someone to point a gun at them and shoot them. So why is it always men shooting women and not women shooting men?

I live in Nottingham and remember that horrible case well, there was no rioting then was there? That poor woman and her tiny little girls must have known such utter terror. Her family were so dignified too, to lose your loved ones in such horrendous circumstances does not bear thinking about.

Just out of interest do you think they have smoke alarms. I wonder this, when there's a fire. Ever house should have an alarm. Maybe they do but they can't escape fast enough?

Yes there have, it's just the news is so instant now that we hear about it almost immediately. This is always who men have been - nasty, violent pieces of work.

Well said.

An apologist.

Come on you're ridiculous.

Have I said anywhere that it's OK for men to do this. No I haven't.

It's awful and horrible.

However I'm realistic.

Lots of Men are going to keep doing this.

Men don't care as they don't give a shit. They have the power and it suits them.

A man I once knew said that "men abuse women because they can"

That is why to have more female only spaces is important.

The other thing is also to implement stricter laws and prison sentences for men. But if the woman is already dead - a long prison sentence doesn't bring her back

I am actually speechless that you have written this. A man has just murdered innocent women and children and you think it was just inevitable, natural even. You should be disgusted with yourself.

I'm very hopeful that the new government will be working to tackle the issues head on. Jess Phillips has been very vocal on these issues for years and she has been given a ministerial role. We have an increased percentage of women MPs (40 percent) and more women in key cabinet roles than ever before so I think many in government do care.

There's still very few of them around. But I stated in a female only hotel there not long ago and it was amazing. Only female staff were allowed to work there. I felt so safe.

Before when I stayed in hotels, the male receptionists used to flirt with me, or they would insist in walking into my bedroom to show me the room. Or they would let themselves into my room at night. I never felt safe in hotels where the male staff had access to my room (some of the room didn't have that second extra lock protection)

I get asked why I've been single for so long
Well the thought of dating is fucking terrifying. Not just the fact they lie about being single but the actual danger

Of course it's inevitable. It happens all the time.

This is one of many many many stories on mumsnet

It happens everywhere every week.

Humans are a cruel and violent race

I do condemn male violence against women, 100%. I’m not apologising for men who commit these terrible crimes.

However it’s factually accurate that not all men are like that, and you’ve just said that there’s a male belief that women only have value in their relationship to men. I think that is demonising all men because in my experience that isn’t a universal male belief.

I do think the factors mentioned probably are triggers for some men, who are like that anyway. However I think the best way to tackle it is a joined up effort involving women and male allies, but for that to happen you need to trust that not all men are like that and get the decent ones onboard. People might call me old fashioned but I think it’s so important for boys to have decent male role models.

It was my first thought too, and I’ve tested mine this evening.

I am saying only what I’ve read on news sites and don’t wish to speculate but reportedly the man entered the property and set himself on fire using an accelerant. Screaming was heard by neighbours, including children’s screams, so they were awake. Maybe they did have smoke alarms and they were woken by them? If it is a rental property, either council or private, they will have had alarms fitted by law. If an accelerant was used, it would have been an intense fire and even with alarms, it may not have made much difference when it came to being able to escape.

I don’t know, my heart hurts for them all.

The countries which have lots of female only spaces tend to be countries where women are not permitted to fully participate in public life. Where the culture inherently recognises - and accepts - that men are a danger to women. We evolved out of that about a century ago. We expect better.

JFC.

not only are you dealing with that but now need to submit a complaint to the police.

Hope she is ok now.

Why is he seriously ill was he trying to harm himself too?

The female only hotel that I stayed in was in Spain.

There were loads of women there from all round the world.

We were all saying how great it was.

We were all saying that we had horror stories of men harassing us in other mixed gender hotels

I hate this use of the word “ally” like it’s an extra action that needs to happen in order to be a basically decent human.

I don’t disagree men need to call other men out and that is hugely valuable, but the language is not helpful - as it assumes the passive/opposite.

I hear you - as a single mum to 3 (at the time) little girls there was fuck all way I was introducing a man to my home - 15 years on - turns out I'm really happy being single and why would I want that now?

What's the government supposed to do? There's about 70 million people in the UK. They can't monitor all of them.

69-million-and-something of those people don't kill anybody but a tiny fraction of a percent do. I'm often surprised it's not more tbh.

Oh so the Ambulance man did kill her then, God I was hoping it was the boiler fumes or somethng or anything other than a murder suicide. Jesus Christ

I completely understand your point and have also stayed in a female only hotel. A few years ago I was in a hotel in the lounge area and a man started to talk to me and masturbated. So I'd obviously like to avoid that in future.

However I think instead of sex segregation, we need better security and training. More guards at train stations, training for hotel staff on harassment and a zero tolerance policy, better lighting at night, better trained police etc

Absolutely devastating.
Could be anywhere and seems to be somewhere every day now, but I work in Bradford and it has become such a dangerous place, it’s terrifying.
It’s only a few months since a woman was stabbed to death in the street as she pushed her toddler in a pram in broad daylight.
It seems every day there is another police cordon for some violent crime or another.
It is entirely out of control, and services in the city are well beyond breaking point.

Tougher sentencing for perpetrators of domestic abuse.
Investing in services that help victims of domestic abuse, reopening all the support services and refuges that our last government closed would be a start.
Education in schools as part of the curriculum.
Investment in policing to include a dedicated domestic abuse team in every force up and down the country.

That would be a start.

And male violence does affect men. They're the main victims by a huge margin!

People talk like they're are all the same individual but it's a miniscule proportion of men that murder other people with the rest being potential victims. This minority of violent men prey on a lot of men and a few women. When you look at criminal vs innocent rather than man vs woman the vast majority of men suddenly become innocent.