To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

[Kianai]

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

See:
https://www.ourstreetsnow.org/

(Some may not like their line on trans rights, but that is not their main issue.)

Because as long as the wives/partners/mothers claim ‘not my Nigel’ ‘not my Johnny’ then nothing can be done. I remember the mother and sisters of my violent step-dad would claim ‘he’s not that bad really’ that him and my mum ‘would be fine once they’ve sorted things out’ he actually had a history for violence with his first wife but nobody warned my mother with 3 kids. So many mothers and girlfriends/wives of little rats laugh along or make excuses when they see their beloveds vitriol aimed at other women/girls.

We need the good men and women to make a stand because these monsters usually start with feeling entitled to verbalise their hate, then it progresses to violence because nobody has ever pulled them up.

No mental health issues is needed just entitlement and misogyny.

Please don’t lessen what it is, all these violent entitled pigs don’t have bad mental health. How many single mothers at the end of their tether kill their children, I know when they do that mental health is usually a factor. But most stressed mothers have enough self control not to take it out on their offspring/partners.

I remember the family Ealing Vicarage rape case in the 80s. A gang broke into a house and burgled it and some of them raped the teenage daughter of the house, who was 17 at the time.
When the case went to trial the burglar got a longer sentence than the rapists because property in law is more valuable than women.
That pig Kelvin McKenzie was editor of The Sun at the time and printed a photo of the victim that was identifiable. It led to a change in the law.

I HATE abriviations too, just lazy

When you have a string of attacks by the same man on women who have no relation to one another, it's clear evidence, that he's done it. This is women end up being so badly hurt. The men don't get better on their own, the behaviour escalates until something really serious happens.

The other myth is that it's about consent. Rape actually has nothing to do with consent. It's a violent attack on a woman. If you saw someone covered in bruises would you say to them, "Did you ask them to stop?" You wouldn't because it's implied that he didn't and his traumatic experience would tell you that he didn't.

Stop protecting men. They wouldn't do it for you.

Why not prosecute after the first attack?

Apparently it's 3 a week now 😭

I should imagine it's because women aren't believed. They had to have a mountain of accusers against Savile because the victims were just dismissed. See also Bill Cosby. Nothing happens until there are so many complaints they can't ignore it.
I do wonder if the Philip Schofield/Huw Edwards things were dealt with relatively swiftly because the victims were men/boys.
There's the delightful 'rough sex' defence recently and a bloke who got off because the defence said the woman had consented while sleepwalking.

But if there isn't enough evidence to prosecute after the first assault, a completely unrelated assault will not produce any further evidence relating to the first.

True. The proposal is that one accusation could be used as corroboration for the second accusation. To a limited extent this is already true, but I am unsure quite when this is allowed. There is an obvious possibility that this could result in conspiracy to make false accusations but the latter would be a serious crime.

I'm trying to see a way to get more men who committ acts of violence against women and children convicted.

I do feel we need to hang on to certain key principles of justice though.

It’s not just reporting. Have you noticed how many tv ‘dramas’ are about women being murdered and/or attacked? This kind of behaviour is normalised by tv shows which offer up this stuff as entertainment. I refuse to watch it and wonder why on earth it’s seen as acceptable in this day and age.

Thank you so much for the group suggestion.

If you've ever experienced this system, it's so weighted against the victim. After you report it, the victim then gives a detailed video interview (it lasts about 2 hours), then depending on the severity of the case the accused is arrested, brought in for questioning. At this point, they start collecting other evidence, witness statements and medical records, downloading phone conversations. This process can take up to a year but it depends on the amount of evidence and complexity. Sometimes it fails at this stage, and the defendant walks free but the accusation stays on his record.

After they've got all the evidence it's referred to the CPS for a charging decision. The CPS make the decision on whether they believe the case has a reasonable chance of succeeding, so the evidence has to be really strong. Only if it passes this stage will it go to the next stage, "Is it in the public interest to prosecute?" Most cases fall down at the first stage. If the CPS don't press charges, the defendant walks free. The fact he's been arrested stays on his record though.

If it gets to Court it's usually been 2-3 years since the victim first reported the crime. The difficulty here is for the victim to try to remember the events clearly and in the way she/he first did when the crime was reported. Add to that the trauma of reliving it and being questioned under cross-examination. Only 4% of rape cases that go to trial end in a successful conviction. What it basically says is that 96% of women are lying.

It's a really long gruelling and exhausting process, not one for the fainthearted. It's not just dealing with the trauma of the event but also the stress of dealing with courts and police.

I've had difficult phases in my life and I can honestly say what I've been through this year has been the worst. It's hardest knowing that he's done it before and has got away with it (which he admitted to me in private) and the fact he's out on bail and could do it again. If he does, the next person might not be so lucky.

I'll see if I can find a link for rape statistics. It's frightening reading though.

And she died recently when she was only 50. It obviously affected her incredibly badly, such a tragedy for her.

I am truely sorry for what you have been through at the hands of men.

If a man has lots of allegations against him, probably would start think it's more than a coincidence.

However I feel there must be proof of each individual allegation. A string of allegations against the same man isn't evidance that he's guilty.

I think that it perhaps should be, if, for instance, his only defence is that he believed the victim had consented. This is quite a common defence. Circumstantial evidence that his belief system is a bit warped could perhaps be from the number of times this had happened to him?

So you're prepared to just wait until said man kills someone? I hope nothing ever happens to you or someone you care about.

I hope you've at least learnt something from our exchange and can take some of what I've said on board.

If you're interested in educating yourself about it then you can look on Rape Crisis England & Wales.

This is the most common defence or that it didn't happen. No-one will ever admit to being a rapist. It carries minimum 4 years to life in prison.

Convictions must be based on evidence not allegations. We can not move away from that.

To be fair, I think it's really hard to understand something you've never experienced. I hear stories of armed forces veterans suffering PTSD, seeing their mates blown up, losing their own limbs and think "Jesus, that must be awful." Yet I can't really imagine what it's like because I've never been in a situation like that.

I have, on occasion, been in situations where I've been threatened/ followed by a guy and I've been grateful for the male strangers who have stepped in to help. I was also in my friends car once when 3 men were hassling 2 girls. My friend and I stepped in and told them to off and made sure the women got home safely.

I do think it's a positive step that men are challenging mates or stepping up to challenge strangers.

I'm sorry but you're wrong. It's what upsets me about the Andrew Tate case. 4 women who didn't know each other came and presented with almost identical stories. The CPS said there wasn't enough to prosecute despite their witness testimony. Only now are they interested because they let a really dangerous sexual predator loose on the world and they can't peddle fast enough back.

The CPS is really flawed. When I reported my case the police said to me, it should be cut and dry but the CPS can be a bit random sometimes. They don't always make the decision we expect.

I won't be changing my mind.

I'll leave this thread now.