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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be so fucking angry. How many more women and children must die?

778 replies

Kianai · 21/08/2024 15:40

I'd almost become numb to it, with all the news so far this year.

Murder after murder of women and their children. Noone ever seeming to link the common denominator. NAMALT.

This latest one today, I feel like something is beginning to snap inside me. Three babies and a young woman dead, because of a fucking man. Again. And again.

news.sky.com/story/police-launch-murder-investigation-after-woman-and-three-children-die-in-house-fire-in-bradford-13200678

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
lololulu · 22/08/2024 11:41

Was he the partner / ex
Was he the father to the children

I've looked but I can't seem to find any info

lololulu · 22/08/2024 11:41

BiscuityBoyle · 21/08/2024 17:53

That poor woman and her babies. She was only young as well. I’ll eat my hat if it isn’t a man that is arrested for it.

I thought he was found at the scene?

lololulu · 22/08/2024 11:44

@oakleaffy

They meet a new woman and want their old life to disappear. How do they think they will get away with killing their wife and kids. They presumably think they will. It's madness and horrifying.

DontBiteTheCat · 22/08/2024 11:50

lololulu · 22/08/2024 11:41

Was he the partner / ex
Was he the father to the children

I've looked but I can't seem to find any info

He was not her ex (the father of her children), that has been confirmed.

offyoujollywelltrot · 22/08/2024 11:56

CharlotteRumpling · 22/08/2024 07:37

Yes, some posters seem to think that violent men are drunk, dishevelled football thugs with a large sign saying " I am violent" round their necks so they can be avoided. They are doctors, lawyers, bankers, politicians...
"That kind of background" indeed!

This - THANK YOU.

noworklifebalance · 22/08/2024 12:28

PassingStranger · 22/08/2024 10:41

Yes but the women.must have been hideous themselves to go along with it.
Most normal women would walk away if a partner shggested cruising the streets looming for victims to kill.

I may have misremembered, and it’s not to say it is the case for all women, but I think Fred West used to pimp out Rose West and men would visit their home to have sex with her. It’s all kinds of fucked up.

cupcaske123 · 22/08/2024 12:32

noworklifebalance · 22/08/2024 12:28

I may have misremembered, and it’s not to say it is the case for all women, but I think Fred West used to pimp out Rose West and men would visit their home to have sex with her. It’s all kinds of fucked up.

Rose West wasn't a victim of Fred, she was a willing partner.

ByCupidStunt · 22/08/2024 12:43

cupcaske123 · 22/08/2024 12:32

Rose West wasn't a victim of Fred, she was a willing partner.

Do you think that Rose West would have killed all those people on her own? If she hadn't met Fred?

Ihearyounow · 22/08/2024 12:51

Let's not derail this important discussion about violence against women with Rose West, hardly typical.

RIP to the latest victims of feminine.

Ihearyounow · 22/08/2024 12:52

FEMICIDE

cupcaske123 · 22/08/2024 12:52

ByCupidStunt · 22/08/2024 12:43

Do you think that Rose West would have killed all those people on her own? If she hadn't met Fred?

I don't want to derail the thread (but will). I doubt she would have done what she did, no. Both Wests had very low IQs and both were victims of sexual child abuse. Fred started assaulting women after a serious accident which gave him brain damage.

He met Rose when she was 15 and they clicked instantly. They were both sexual predators and she participated fully in the rape and murder of many women. We know this from the accounts of survivors. Rose killed her step daughter while Fred was in prison.

SeaStory · 22/08/2024 13:20

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 07:52

"Until men decide things need to change, nothing will".

I disagree. Why would men change? What do they have to gain by changing?

They have the power now and it suits them.

It's only when women unite, stand up , join forces and protest, will things change

I agree. I don’t think all women will unite though. Too many are invested in defending the men, congratulating themselves on picking a rare good one, coming onto threads like this and NAMALTing.

As it stands right now I don’t think things will change. Men are comfortable in their position.

A 4G type movement may sway some to make changes, but in all likelihood will push more men to incel behaviour before there’s any meaningful change.

There have been too many events that should have affected people enough to make change, but every time that happens (like the Me Too movement) there’s a huge push back against women. Men cannot cope with their position being threatened at all.

SeaStory · 22/08/2024 13:26

SparklyJadeFawn · 22/08/2024 08:11

Women abuse a lot of children

And a lot of women HAVE killed children .

Lucy letby - serial killer of children
The woman who killed baby Star.
Thw woman who killed Arthur Labinjo.

There are loads of cases

3 or 4 a week?
No.
When a woman kills it’s shocking because it’s rare.

Stats on maternal abuse is also skewed as mothers are predominantly the default parent. There are no societies to compare to where men are the main carers, to see if figures would be similar or higher. This is often trotted out in threads like this as a gotcha, proving how shitty women are, but it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
It’s awful that any child is abused, but given stats on male violence I’d hazard a guess that child abuse and murder would be a very different kettle of fish if men were suddenly the default parents.

Bodeganights · 22/08/2024 13:37

PassingStranger · 21/08/2024 21:46

Just out of interest do you think they have smoke alarms. I wonder this, when there's a fire. Ever house should have an alarm. Maybe they do but they can't escape fast enough?

Maybe they are disabled before the fire is started? Or like mine (and I know, I really do know) unplugged from the mains because when they very inconveniently go off, the dogs are stuck inside with the noise and I have to get ladders out and perch precariously to reset them.

Whothefuckdoesthat · 22/08/2024 14:44

WotsYourExcuse · 21/08/2024 22:03

And male violence does affect men. They're the main victims by a huge margin!

People talk like they're are all the same individual but it's a miniscule proportion of men that murder other people with the rest being potential victims. This minority of violent men prey on a lot of men and a few women. When you look at criminal vs innocent rather than man vs woman the vast majority of men suddenly become innocent.

And male violence does affect men. They're the main victims by a huge margin!

Are you having a fucking laugh? Yes, I accept that more men are killed at the hands of other men, than women are. So if we’re confining the definition of male violence to murder, then you might have a point.

But women and girls don’t just have to avoid being murdered by men, do we? We have to avoid physical violence, either from our partners in what should be the safety of our own homes, or our ex partners who feel the need to remind us how dangerous they are, or, like a pp’s daughter, because she intervened in a man attacking her friend and he then turned on her. Or like the two women who were attacked by young males on a bus because of their sexuality. Or the woman who was punched in the face because she wouldn’t give a man her phone number. When was the last time a male victim of violence was asked by police whether he’d really considered the damage an arrest could cause to a violent man’s career?

And then, of course, we have sexual violence. We all know that if we go out after dark, or wear certain clothes, or drink alcohol, or we’re polite to a man, there will be people who think we asked to be assaulted. If you’re assaulted by a celebrity or a sportsman then you have no chance of getting justice because you’ve clearly fabricated it for the money and/or the fame (although funny how nobody can ever name a rape victim who has become rich and/or famous because of their rape). Do you remember that young girl who had her choice of underwear questioned at her rapist’s trial? The underwear he never should have even known she’d chosen to wear? Do you think the victims of that male serial rapist were asked about their underwear?

And even if we’re lucky enough to make it through the day without being physically assaulted, we’ve still got the day to day aggression (ranging from cat calls, being followed, inappropriate comments, having men in vans shouting at them and making obscene gestures, being flashed at, being masturbated at, and being generally frightened). Like the thread a couple of days ago where a woman declined the company of a man while she was eating in a restaurant and was forced to run onto a bus and hide before he could get to her. Or the article a few months ago about that dress that was invented & measured how many times it had been touched. They put it on a woman who walked through a club and were astonished at the times she’d been groped walking from one side of the room to the other. How many men feel the need to tell uber/taxi drivers a false address so they can walk the rest of the way home without some creepy man knowing where they live? How many issues of GQ magazine have articles on 25 ways to make it home safely after a night out?

And then we have the pretend nice men. The ones who believe that women need to reward them for their niceness by having sex with them. The ones who laugh off Dave’s antics when he’s harassing some poor woman who just wants to be left alone. The ones who can work with a police officer nicknamed ‘the rapist’ and still sleep at night. The ones who aren’t dropping their mate like a hot potato when he shouts abuse at a teenager from a van window. The ones who are looking at illegal images on line, or watching ‘revenge’ videos or rape victims on porn hub, or raping trafficked women. Those men are someone’s husband, boyfriend, brother, father. Suddenly the number of ‘innocent’ men gets smaller and smaller.

So you can fuck right off with your ‘men are the real victims here’ because it’s absolute bollocks. You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator · 22/08/2024 14:54

61% of bisexual women and 44% of lesbian women surveyed in 2013 reported some type of intimate partner violence (IPV) compared to 35% of straight women.

https://www.standffov.org/tdvam/abuse-in-lesbian-relationships/

Food for thought for those posters who hope their daughters become lesbians.

Minor point, but reporting IPV in a previous relationship when you are with a woman is by no means conclusive proof that the other person was a female. Lesbians who have a relationship with a male prior to coming out are far from rare.

Katypp · 22/08/2024 14:55

Whothefuckdoesthat · 22/08/2024 14:44

And male violence does affect men. They're the main victims by a huge margin!

Are you having a fucking laugh? Yes, I accept that more men are killed at the hands of other men, than women are. So if we’re confining the definition of male violence to murder, then you might have a point.

But women and girls don’t just have to avoid being murdered by men, do we? We have to avoid physical violence, either from our partners in what should be the safety of our own homes, or our ex partners who feel the need to remind us how dangerous they are, or, like a pp’s daughter, because she intervened in a man attacking her friend and he then turned on her. Or like the two women who were attacked by young males on a bus because of their sexuality. Or the woman who was punched in the face because she wouldn’t give a man her phone number. When was the last time a male victim of violence was asked by police whether he’d really considered the damage an arrest could cause to a violent man’s career?

And then, of course, we have sexual violence. We all know that if we go out after dark, or wear certain clothes, or drink alcohol, or we’re polite to a man, there will be people who think we asked to be assaulted. If you’re assaulted by a celebrity or a sportsman then you have no chance of getting justice because you’ve clearly fabricated it for the money and/or the fame (although funny how nobody can ever name a rape victim who has become rich and/or famous because of their rape). Do you remember that young girl who had her choice of underwear questioned at her rapist’s trial? The underwear he never should have even known she’d chosen to wear? Do you think the victims of that male serial rapist were asked about their underwear?

And even if we’re lucky enough to make it through the day without being physically assaulted, we’ve still got the day to day aggression (ranging from cat calls, being followed, inappropriate comments, having men in vans shouting at them and making obscene gestures, being flashed at, being masturbated at, and being generally frightened). Like the thread a couple of days ago where a woman declined the company of a man while she was eating in a restaurant and was forced to run onto a bus and hide before he could get to her. Or the article a few months ago about that dress that was invented & measured how many times it had been touched. They put it on a woman who walked through a club and were astonished at the times she’d been groped walking from one side of the room to the other. How many men feel the need to tell uber/taxi drivers a false address so they can walk the rest of the way home without some creepy man knowing where they live? How many issues of GQ magazine have articles on 25 ways to make it home safely after a night out?

And then we have the pretend nice men. The ones who believe that women need to reward them for their niceness by having sex with them. The ones who laugh off Dave’s antics when he’s harassing some poor woman who just wants to be left alone. The ones who can work with a police officer nicknamed ‘the rapist’ and still sleep at night. The ones who aren’t dropping their mate like a hot potato when he shouts abuse at a teenager from a van window. The ones who are looking at illegal images on line, or watching ‘revenge’ videos or rape victims on porn hub, or raping trafficked women. Those men are someone’s husband, boyfriend, brother, father. Suddenly the number of ‘innocent’ men gets smaller and smaller.

So you can fuck right off with your ‘men are the real victims here’ because it’s absolute bollocks. You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

Really, is there any need to be so rude and aggressive?
You might think you sound passionate and driven whereas I (and others on the sidelines I suspect) think you sound shouty, ignorant and unable to even consider another viewpoint.
We get your point. All men are violent monsters, all women are innocent victims. Women never kill unless a man made them do it.
Of course, real life is a lit more nuanced than your shortcut version.

BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator · 22/08/2024 14:59

BeyondOlympicLevelProcrastinator · 22/08/2024 14:54

61% of bisexual women and 44% of lesbian women surveyed in 2013 reported some type of intimate partner violence (IPV) compared to 35% of straight women.

https://www.standffov.org/tdvam/abuse-in-lesbian-relationships/

Food for thought for those posters who hope their daughters become lesbians.

Minor point, but reporting IPV in a previous relationship when you are with a woman is by no means conclusive proof that the other person was a female. Lesbians who have a relationship with a male prior to coming out are far from rare.

Oh and apart from that, there are also women who will call themselves lesbian as their male partner also calls himself a lesbian.

DontBiteTheCat · 22/08/2024 15:01

I’ve just read a news article saying that the police were called to the property in July due to her former partner and father of her children assaulting her and strangling her.

It’s been reported however that he isn’t the man who has been arrested?

Naunet · 22/08/2024 15:04

And male violence does affect men. They're the main victims by a hugemargin

No they’re not, not when you include rape and sexual assault as violence, which it is.

Naunet · 22/08/2024 15:07

Katypp · 22/08/2024 14:55

Really, is there any need to be so rude and aggressive?
You might think you sound passionate and driven whereas I (and others on the sidelines I suspect) think you sound shouty, ignorant and unable to even consider another viewpoint.
We get your point. All men are violent monsters, all women are innocent victims. Women never kill unless a man made them do it.
Of course, real life is a lit more nuanced than your shortcut version.

That’s not her point at all, and if you stop being so defensive, put your cape down for just one second and actually read what she wrote, you’d have a chance of actually understanding that.

XChrome · 22/08/2024 15:07

Whothefuckdoesthat · 22/08/2024 14:44

And male violence does affect men. They're the main victims by a huge margin!

Are you having a fucking laugh? Yes, I accept that more men are killed at the hands of other men, than women are. So if we’re confining the definition of male violence to murder, then you might have a point.

But women and girls don’t just have to avoid being murdered by men, do we? We have to avoid physical violence, either from our partners in what should be the safety of our own homes, or our ex partners who feel the need to remind us how dangerous they are, or, like a pp’s daughter, because she intervened in a man attacking her friend and he then turned on her. Or like the two women who were attacked by young males on a bus because of their sexuality. Or the woman who was punched in the face because she wouldn’t give a man her phone number. When was the last time a male victim of violence was asked by police whether he’d really considered the damage an arrest could cause to a violent man’s career?

And then, of course, we have sexual violence. We all know that if we go out after dark, or wear certain clothes, or drink alcohol, or we’re polite to a man, there will be people who think we asked to be assaulted. If you’re assaulted by a celebrity or a sportsman then you have no chance of getting justice because you’ve clearly fabricated it for the money and/or the fame (although funny how nobody can ever name a rape victim who has become rich and/or famous because of their rape). Do you remember that young girl who had her choice of underwear questioned at her rapist’s trial? The underwear he never should have even known she’d chosen to wear? Do you think the victims of that male serial rapist were asked about their underwear?

And even if we’re lucky enough to make it through the day without being physically assaulted, we’ve still got the day to day aggression (ranging from cat calls, being followed, inappropriate comments, having men in vans shouting at them and making obscene gestures, being flashed at, being masturbated at, and being generally frightened). Like the thread a couple of days ago where a woman declined the company of a man while she was eating in a restaurant and was forced to run onto a bus and hide before he could get to her. Or the article a few months ago about that dress that was invented & measured how many times it had been touched. They put it on a woman who walked through a club and were astonished at the times she’d been groped walking from one side of the room to the other. How many men feel the need to tell uber/taxi drivers a false address so they can walk the rest of the way home without some creepy man knowing where they live? How many issues of GQ magazine have articles on 25 ways to make it home safely after a night out?

And then we have the pretend nice men. The ones who believe that women need to reward them for their niceness by having sex with them. The ones who laugh off Dave’s antics when he’s harassing some poor woman who just wants to be left alone. The ones who can work with a police officer nicknamed ‘the rapist’ and still sleep at night. The ones who aren’t dropping their mate like a hot potato when he shouts abuse at a teenager from a van window. The ones who are looking at illegal images on line, or watching ‘revenge’ videos or rape victims on porn hub, or raping trafficked women. Those men are someone’s husband, boyfriend, brother, father. Suddenly the number of ‘innocent’ men gets smaller and smaller.

So you can fuck right off with your ‘men are the real victims here’ because it’s absolute bollocks. You should be fucking ashamed of yourself.

Right. Men aren't attacked just because they are men. Women routinely are attacked because just they are women. Violence against men is mostly gang violence, robberies, bar fights and other personal disputes. They don't have to live in fear that somebody will assault and/or kill them just because of their sex.
It's not even remotely comparable and anyone trotting out that "men experience more violence" line in this context should absolutely be ashamed. I've had dealings with that poster on this issue before. She seems to be a bit of a broken record on the subject of how tough men supposedly have it.

Men hurt and kill women and men also hurt and kill other men. Men are the problem and only men can do anything about that. They never will. However, it is up to women to deal with other women and show them their enabling of men will make them outcasts with the rest of us. We need to present a united front on female apologists for male cruelty.

XChrome · 22/08/2024 15:10

Katypp · 22/08/2024 14:55

Really, is there any need to be so rude and aggressive?
You might think you sound passionate and driven whereas I (and others on the sidelines I suspect) think you sound shouty, ignorant and unable to even consider another viewpoint.
We get your point. All men are violent monsters, all women are innocent victims. Women never kill unless a man made them do it.
Of course, real life is a lit more nuanced than your shortcut version.

Another one trying to pour straw into people's ears.
If you can't debate what's actually been said why do you bother to respond at all?

Katypp · 22/08/2024 15:17

XChrome · 22/08/2024 15:10

Another one trying to pour straw into people's ears.
If you can't debate what's actually been said why do you bother to respond at all?

Again, there's no need for such aggression.
If you can point me to a reasonable debate where the poster is not swearing and abusing those who don't go along with the rhetoric, I will gladly debate.
I have no idea what you mean about pouring straw into ears by the way - care to explain?

Katypp · 22/08/2024 15:19

And even if we’re lucky enough to make it through the day without being physically assaulted

Actually seriously? Where on earth do you hang out?

Swipe left for the next trending thread